Praying to Saints


#1

Hi everyone!! I just registered…yeay! With that said I’m going to try to tell you a little about me in a few sentences. I’m 25, have grown up catholic my whole life, but never really paid attention to the history nor to the WHY of our religion, until now. I’m in a serious relationship with a man that I love, however, we are not seeing eye to eye on things. I am a woman of faith, so with my heart, and with my God I know that I will be able to get through to my man! We have a hard time discussing religion because he’s basically an anti-catholic born again christian. He’s a wonderful man of faith, just has a lot to say about my religion. This is where I need help.

I’m looking for a little guidance. My current discussion with him is on saints. He says “YOU CATHOLICS pray to saints and they are dead, the bible says no communication with the dead”. I told him we ask the saints to intercede for us, just as we would ask anyone on earth to. He brings up again, THEY ARE DEAD AND GOD DOESN’T WANT US COMMUNICATING WITH THE DEAD".
We decided to do our own research, him on his own and me on my own. He has presented me the following scripture passages:

Deuteronomy 18: 9-12
Leviticus 20: 6
Leviticus 20: 26-27
Isaiah 8: 19
1 Samuel 28: 3-19
1 Samuel 31: 1-13

He has also brought up the word NECROMANCEH, where he gives me the definition as “the art of revealing future events by means of a pretended communication with the dead”.

Now, I read these passages with him, as well as on my own, and both times I have come to the understanding that what God is referring to in these passages is do not go to do not go to psychics…do not summon the dead, etc. I discussed this with him and told him that I completely agree with what these passages say about not summoning the dead, but he says we do it when we pray to saints. All I want to do is :banghead: but I am being wise and informing myself on how to approach him.

I’m sorry I’m making this so long but can anyone guide me as to how to go about explaining this to him in a manner he might understand? I would appreciate ANY suggestions.

Thanks again!!!


#2

This subject gets a lot of coverage on this website. You could try a few searches:
at catholic.com, look up praying to the saints;
you could go to the top of the forums page and under “search” look up praying to saints;
you could also look under the “Ask an Apologist” forum.
There’s a lot of info out there. I’d probably start at catholic.com. :slight_smile:


#3

But you aren’t summoning the dead, you are asking those who are in Heaven, ALIVE with Christ to pray for you. You aren’t asking them to give you information about the future. In Revelation 8 (I think) we see the saints in Heaven bringing our prayers (it says the prayers of ALL the saints) to God’s throne.

Here are a couple of links to help you.

Saints and Intercessory Prayer

Aren’t all Christians Saints?

The Bible Christian Society has many free apologetics downloads that will help you, too. There’s one on the Communion of Saints but I recommend all of them! :thumbsup: You can get them mailed to you on CDs as well.


#4

You are all so helpful. Thanks!!!

I’m so happy I found this forum!!!


#5

He doesn’t sound very respectful of your faith. That should raise a red flag for you.

THEY ARE DEAD AND GOD DOESN’T WANT US COMMUNICATING WITH THE DEAD".

Are there dead people in heaven?

Deuteronomy 18: 9-12

Irrelevant, since Catholics don’t inquire of or consult the dead.

Leviticus 20: 6

Irrelevant, since Catholics don’t believe in mediums or necromancers.

Leviticus 20: 26-27

Irrelevant, since Catholics don’t believe in mediums or necromancers.

Isaiah 8: 19

Irrelevant, since Catholics don’t believe in mediums or necromancers.

1 Samuel 28: 3-19

Irrelevant, since Catholics don’t believe in mediums or necromancers.

1 Samuel 31: 1-13

I don’t see the relevance of these verses.

He has also brought up the word NECROMANCEH, where he gives me the definition as “the art of revealing future events by means of a pretended communication with the dead”.

Well nobody is pretending so this too is irrelevant.

Again you must ask him, are there dead people in heaven?

Also consider these passages from Revelation:
5:8And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

So those in heaven have possession of “the prayers of the saints.”

5:11Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
12saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"
13And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!"
14And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
So when those in heaven and on earth pray to God, their prayers to God are represented as spoken words, not incense. Further, those in heaven can hear those on earth.

If the prayers to God of those in heaven and on earth are represented as spoken words, and if those in heaven can hear those on earth, and if there are some other sort of prayers which are represented as incense and offered up to God by those in heaven, then what are those other prayers which are not the spoken prayers offered directly to God? These other prayers, clearly shown to be of a completely different form and substance, are, of course, the prayers of intercession prayed by those on earth that they may be delivered by the saints in heaven to God.


#6

No communication indeed, then why did Jesus communicate with those that were considered dead ?

Gospel According to Saint Mark

3 And there appeared to them Elias with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.


#7

“Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

Would it matter if one person was in Australia, and the other person was in Europe?

So, would it matter if one person was on earth and the other person was in heaven?


#8

scripturecatholic.com/saints.html
catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp
catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp


#9

Simply go to Mt. Ch. 22:
31 And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken by God, saying to you:
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


#10

First and foremost, welcome to the forum.

He doesn’t understand saints are not dead. Our God is the God of the living, not the dead. Actually the saints are much more alive than you and I. When we pray, we’re praying to the living. Certainly he understand Scripture calls each of us to pray for one another?


#11
  1. All Christians are members of Christ’s body and one another (Rom 12:5).
  2. Jesus has only one body (Eph 4:4; Col 3:15).
  3. Death cannot separate Christians from Christ or from one another (Rom 8:35-38).
  4. Christians are bound in mutual love (Rom 12:10; 1 Thess 5:11; Gal 6:2).

1 Tim 2:1-4
I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made for all men . . . This is good, and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior.


#12

I would suggest the book “Any Friend of God’s is a Friend of Mine” by (I think) Patrick Madrid.

It’s brief but lays it out in simple, clear language.


#13

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