Praying to Saints


#1

I’m communicating with some of my old Protestant friends and would like to know some early incidents of praying to saints and the Biblical and Patristic arguments for such.

Dan Lauffer


#2

Catholic Answers has a good tract and one on the Fathers, and there is this article on my site on the Communion of Saints by David Lamb

Phil P


#3

Speaking as an “:yup: old Protestant”, I think I would draw attention to the NT’s frequent calls for intercessory prayer.

Because many people probably think that you are worshiping the saints, as opposed to asking for their prayer support…

Mind you, I have a number of friends & family (esp family), who are not at all sure about me. But I keep on talking to my friends in Heaven, anyway!!


#4

Phil P - can you redo your Communion of Saints link above? I don’t think it’s working? Thanks!


#5

Revelation 5:8 and Revelation 8:3.


#6

Protestants pray to each other.

<Gasp! What he said!>

But it’s true – go to any Protestant service and you are likely to hear the minister ask (pray) the congregation to pray (intercede) for someone who is sick, having problems, and so on.

How is this different from asking a larger congregation (the Communion of Saints) or a specific individual (say, Mary) to intercede for us?


#7

[quote=vern humphrey]Protestants pray to each other.

<Gasp! What he said!>

But it’s true – go to any Protestant service and you are likely to hear the minister ask (pray) the congregation to pray (intercede) for someone who is sick, having problems, and so on.

How is this different from asking a larger congregation (the Communion of Saints) or a specific individual (say, Mary) to intercede for us?
[/quote]

:frowning: I can tell you right now the Protestant response: They’re dead. As I was told elsewhere, ‘Ask your family and friends to pray for you. You don’t need her’ – about Mary. They just don’t get it. AND, I have brought up the intercessory prayers and such to Protestants…it’s funny because it SO doesn’t fit with their theology, they offer up different excuses for it so that it melds with their mindset. They will twist it around in anyway so that it doesn’t say what you want it to. (And, one thing is, when I was trying to point out Biblical evidence for Purgatory, a Prot said, “It COULD be interpreted that way…” because none of our doctrines ARE explicitly defined…and that’s the only thing that they rely on. AND, I mean, as Americans, so legalistic and all & I don’t know about you, but, I always had to give sources in English papers and show my work in math classes, that we WANT to see it in expressed written command. I’m just saying…it may not be easy to show sola scriptura. I’ve just prayed that it comes easy for you, Gregory.


#8

[quote=GregoryPalamas]I’m communicating with some of my old Protestant friends and would like to know some early incidents of praying to saints and the Biblical and Patristic arguments for such.

Dan Lauffer
[/quote]

Biblical and Common Sense Arguement

Praying to saints is general an act to both honor the saint and also to exhort them to pray for us.

First, we honor the saint because of God. We honor them because they have succeeded in this life and conquered there temptations to sin with the help of God. By honoring these saints we are honoring God himself for his great creation and for his goodness. When we honor the saints, we honor them for the good that they have in them, which is all from God.

If you look at Augustin’s writings “On Christian Doctrine”, he speaks about enjoyment vs. use. He says that we only enjoy God, and everything else is for use. What it means to enjoy is that we place our love in that being. Now, he also says that when we enjoy another person we are doing that because of God. When we love our friends and family, we do so because of God, and not simply because of themselves. God is in everyone. This applies because it shows the meaning of honoring the saints. We do so because of God.

Second, we pray to the saints that they will pray for us. Look at the last line of the Hail Mary, “Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of death.”. James 5 says, “The prayers of a righteous man availeth us much”. What man, or woman, is more righteous than those who have died and have been cleansed by God? None. Paul says in Phil. 1, “Always in my prayers making supplication for all you, with joy;” He also tells them to offer prayers for eachother

Hermas says, “[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (*The Shepherd *3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).


#9

Here is a link to some patristic quotes.

catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp


#10

[quote=PhilVaz]Catholic Answers has a good tract and one on the Fathers, and there is this article on my site on the Communion of Saints by David Lamb

Phil P
[/quote]

How do you make the link in words like you did?


#11

[quote=jimmy]How do you make the link in words like you did?
[/quote]

Do this: url=“blah”]I’m cute That’s how he did it.


#12

catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp

]Church Fathers


#13

[quote=Milliardo]Do this: url=“blah”]I’m cute
[/quote]

That’s how he did it.

catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp]Church Fathers


#14

[quote=Milliardo]Do this: url=“blah”]I’m cute
[/quote]

That’s how he did it.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp”]ChurchFathers


#15

[quote=Milliardo]Do this: url=“blah”]I’m cute
[/quote]

That’s how he did it.

[HTML="<A href=“http://www.catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp”]ChurchFathers



#16

[quote=jimmy][HTML=“ChurchFathers”]www.catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp



[/quote]


 
The tags should be url, not html.

#17

[quote=Milliardo]The tags should be url, not html.
[/quote]

I tried that and it did not work

catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp] ChurchFathers


#18

Okay, another lesson here: The tags should be closed (meaning [ ]. Close everything with ](“http://)%20i%20only%20did%20that%20tho%20show%20you%20how%20it’s%20done.%20as%20well,%20put%20”%20"%20so%20it%20looks%20like%20this:%20url=“blah”%20then%20close%20the%20tag%20with[%20). Let’s see how it will come out:

<A href="http://www.catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saints.asp"%20target=_blank>http://www.catholic.com/library/Int...he_Saint%20s.asp" target=_blank>ChurchFathers


#19

%between%


#20

[quote=jimmy]How do you make the link in words like you did?
[/quote]

Hi Jimmy,

Each of links in PhilVaz’s post (#2) worked fine or me.

Notwithstanding, the easiest was to create such “Hot Text” links is to use the “Insert link” tool,
which appears in your tool bar when you reply to or submit a post. (The tool’'s icon looks like…
http://forums.catholic.com/images/editor/createlink.gif
[left]When you want to map any text string (e.g. “Church Fathers”) to an external link, such as
"http://www.catholic.com/library/Intercession_of_the_Saint s.asp", mearly highlight the text
(i.e. :Chuch Fathers) in your document (by mousing over it with the left mouse button down).

Then release the mouse button and left click on the “insert link icon” (see above) and you
will get a pop-up dialog box which will allow you to manually type in the desired link (or if you
have previously copied the link to your clipboard, you could simply right click on the dilog box
link name space and select the paste option, which will paste the link save on your clipboard
into the link name space.)

That being done, simply click the OK button on the dialog box and you’re done. You will then
see your “Hot Text” underline in Blue which will let you (and everyone else) know that it’s a
link.

To verify the contents of the link, right click on your “Hot Text” (now underlined in Blue) and
click on the properties option. This will display the link that your “Hot Text” is mapped to.

To remove the link you have just created, simply highlight your “Hot Text” (now underlined in
Blue) and left click on the “Remove Link” tool, to the immediate right of the “Insert Link” tool
on the tool bar. The “Remove Link” tool’s icon looks like…http://forums.catholic.com/images/editor/unlink.gif

Hope this helps.

Frank

[/left]


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