Praying to the dead - not Saints

We pray to Saints because the Church confirms to us that they are in heavan. Is it ok to pray to people close in our lives who have passed away (even though we can’t confirm that they are in heaven)? If they’re still in Purgatory, can they still intercede on our behalf?

Many of the Saints were prayed to, asking for intercession, before they were Saints and were dead.

I always ask my dear father to pray for me. And my step-sister. But I’ve never thought about the fact that they may still be in purgatory. My Dad’s been dead for 26 years and was a wonderful man. I can’t imagine that he’s not in heaven.

st paul prays for his departed friend onesiphorus, which makes sense only if he can be helped by prayer. 2tim 1:16-18:“may the lord grant mercy to the household of onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me;he was not ashamed of my chains…may the lord grant him to find mercy from the lord on that day.” in short, if the jews,st.paul, and the early christians prayed for the dead, then we should have no fear of praying for them as well. i sometimes pray to my granma, an she is already gone. **Watch, O Lord (St. Augustine)
**Watch, O Lord, with those who wake, or watch, or weep tonight, and give Your angels and saints charge over those who sleep.
Tend Your sick ones, O Lord Christ.
Rest Your weary ones.
Bless Your dying ones.
Soothe Your suffering ones.
Pity Your afflicted ones.
Shield Your joyous ones, and all for Your love’s sake. Amen.

The BEST WAY I have to think about this is to REFLECT on my NAVY DAYS… If a CAPTAIN of a NAVY SHIP arrives or departs the DUTY PERSONNEL are required to ANNOUCE: “THE NAME of the SHIP,” arriving or departing…

A direct simile would be with JESUS CHRIST arriving or departing… IN NAVY TERMINOLOGY one would SAY: “HEAVEN ARRIVING,” or ,“HEAVEN DEPARTING…”

Thus it makes some sense…
MK 14:22 While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is my body.”

14:25 Amen, I say to you, I shall not drink again the fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."

MT 3:2 (and) saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!”

MT 4:17 From that time on, Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

MT 10:7 As you go, make this proclamation: ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’

MT 10:19 When they hand you over, do not worry about how you are to speak or what you are to say. You will be given at that moment what you are to say.(INSPIRATION at hand too…)

10:20 For it will not be you who speak but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Yes, we can pray to the SAINTS, in purgatory; all those in purgatory AND heaven are saints. The “cannonized” saints are those that the church tells us, are known to be in heaven. This is done through much investigation and prayer. We do not know wether or not our loved ones are in heaven or purgatory or not, which is good, because if we knew that someone that we loved and or cared about was in hell, we would fall into great dispair. We should pray FOR our loved ones and friends, often, so that if they are in purgatory, they may be purified soon and proceed to heaven and the beaitific vision. If they are all ready in heaven, then God will put our prayers to good use for others who need them. We should pray to them to interceed and pray with us, for ourselves and others, for they are closser to God; if in purgatory they are on the way to heaven, for sure, and if in heaven they ARE there. In purgatory they cannot pray for themselves but of course their prayer are still heard for others.

God bless you,

Peace be with you!

Talking to dead people, saint or not saint, is a sin.

In Love,

Yaqubos†

[quote=Dave] If they’re still in Purgatory, can they still intercede on our behalf?
[/quote]

In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus and said "The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. … And he [the rich man] said, `Then I beg you, father [Abraham], to send him [Lazarus] to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ " If those in the flames of Hades can intercede for the living, I think it is reasonable to assume that those in Purgatory can too.

Talking to dead people, saint or not saint, is a sin.

In Love,

Christ was speaking to Moses and Elijah at the Mt. of Transfiguration. And the apostles Peter, James and John saw them. Was it a sin?

Pio

[quote=mayra hart]st paul prays for his departed friend onesiphorus, which makes sense only if he can be helped by prayer. 2tim 1:16-18:“may the lord grant mercy to the household of onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me;he was not ashamed of my chains…may the lord grant him to find mercy from the lord on that day.” in short, if the jews,st.paul, and the early christians prayed for the dead, then we should have no fear of praying **for **them as well. i sometimes pray to my granma, an she is already gone. Watch, O Lord (St. Augustine)
Watch, O Lord, with those who wake, or watch, or weep tonight, and give Your angels and saints charge over those who sleep.
Tend Your sick ones, O Lord Christ.
Rest Your weary ones.
Bless Your dying ones.
Soothe Your suffering ones.
Pity Your afflicted ones.
Shield Your joyous ones, and all for Your love’s sake. Amen.
[/quote]

Hi myra hart,
Please look at the highlighted words. For and to. Does “for’ convey a different meaning to " to”?
I feel they do.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG

[quote=Todd Easton]In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus…If those in the flames of Hades can intercede for the living, I think it is reasonable to assume that those in Purgatory can too.

[/quote]

I don’t think it is all that clear whether the rich man had the ability to intercede for those of us on earth. Actually, it appears the rich man’s request was denied:

[quote=Lk 16:27-31] He said, ‘Then I beg you, father, send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they too come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ He said, ‘Oh no, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’"
[/quote]

It is my understanding that the Church has never made a determination as to whether those in Purgatory (let alone Hell) can intercede for us.

[quote=Todd Easton]In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus and said "The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. … And he [the rich man] said, `Then I beg you, father [Abraham], to send him [Lazarus] to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ " If those in the flames of Hades can intercede for the living, I think it is reasonable to assume that those in Purgatory can too.

[/quote]

Hi Todd,
Luke16:29 "Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them"
Todd this is very clearly saying that the dead won’t intercede. The rich man’s request was turned down. Not allowed. Let the people listen to Moses and the prophets. Members of this list keep using this as a testimony to pray to the dead and it clearly shows a negative result. I am left to guess that the reason members keep on using this verse is because it is taught. Please read the verse and evaluate it and if it is difficult pray about it and ask the Holy Spirit.
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG

[quote=hlgomez]Christ was speaking to Moses and Elijah at the Mt. of Transfiguration. And the apostles Peter, James and John saw them. Was it a sin?
[/quote]

I don’t think you would be able to persuede a non-Catholic using this argument. A non-Catholic would probably be more willing to accept the argument if Peter, James or John spoke to Moses and Elijah.

Of course, since Jesus was fully human…it does hold some weight. But he was also fully divine…

It really boils down to who has the authority to interpret as to whether it is ok to ask saints to intercede for us…The Catholic Church.

[quote=edwinG]Hi Todd,
Luke16:29 "Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them"
Todd this is very clearly saying that the dead won’t intercede. The rich man’s request was turned down. Not allowed. Let the people listen to Moses and the prophets. Members of this list keep using this as a testimony to pray to the dead and it clearly shows a negative result. I am left to guess that the reason members keep on using this verse is because it is taught. Please read the verse and evaluate it and if it is difficult pray about it and ask the Holy Spirit.
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG
[/quote]

Our prayers for a friend are not always answered. Do you think that the prayers for our friends are bad?

[quote=edwinG]…Todd this is very clearly saying that the dead won’t intercede…I am left to guess that the reason members keep on using this verse is because it is taught. Please read the verse and evaluate it and if it is difficult pray about it and ask the Holy Spirit…
[/quote]

I will concede this much (as I have indicated in my post above), it appears the request was denied…but the rich man was in “hades” - not in purgatory.

Let me issue this warning as it pertains to discernment. Many in the past have claimed the Holy Spirit has led them to the correct conclusion as to the best way to know Christ’s will for us…and have fallen off of the path to Christ.

I know the Catholic Church is true and it is filled with the Holy Spirit. I am hoping you come to the same conclusion someday edwinG.

God bless you.

[quote=YAQUBOS]Peace be with you!

Talking to dead people, saint or not saint, is a sin.

In Love,

Yaqubos†
[/quote]

We’re not “talking” to them as in divination. We are praying for them and asking them to pray for us.

** What prayers are efficacious?** The Sacrifice of the Mass has always occupied the foremost place among prayers for the dead, as will be seen from the testimonies quoted above; but in addition to the Mass and to private prayers, we have mention in the earliest times of almsgiving, especially in connection with funeral agapae, and of fasting for the dead (Kirsch, Die Lehre von der Gemeinschaft der Heiligen, etc., p. 171; Cabrol, Dictionnaire d’archeologie, I, 808-830). Believing in the communion of saints in which the departed faithful shared, Christians saw no reason for excluding them from any of the offices of piety which the living were in the habit of performing for one another. The only development to be noted in this connection is the application of Indulgences for the dead. Indulgences for the living were a development from the ancient penitential discipline, and were in use for a considerable time before we have any evidence of their being formally applied for the dead. The earliest instance comes from the year 1457. Without entering into the subject here, we would remark that the application of Indulgences for the dead, when properly understood and explained, introduces no new principle, but is merely an extension of the general principle underlying the ordinary practice of prayer and good works for the dead. The church claims no power of absolving the souls in purgatory from their pains, as on earth she absolves men from sins. It is only per modum suffragii, i.e. by way of prayer, that Indulgences avail for the dead, the Church adding her official or corporate intercession to that of the person who performs and offers the indulgenced work, and beseeching God to apply, for the relief of those souls whom the offerer intends, some portion of the superabundant satisfactions of Christ and His saints, or, in view of those same satisfactions, to remit some portion of their pains, in what measure may seem good to His own infinite mercy and love i still do pray for my granma i know she was a good person,always helping others. bless you all

Peace be with you!

[quote=hlgomez]Christ was speaking to Moses and Elijah at the Mt. of Transfiguration. And the apostles Peter, James and John saw them. Was it a sin?

Pio
[/quote]

  1. Christ is God and He was showing us this in His Transfiguration. God can talk to the dead whenever He wants, because they are alive for Him.

  2. The apostles saw the prophets exceptionally as witnesses to that. But they didn’t talk to dead saints.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Peace be with you!

[quote=wisdom 3:5]We’re not “talking” to them as in divination. We are praying for them and asking them to pray for us.
[/quote]

Worse!

In Love,
Yaqubos†

The Practice of asking for the intercession of Saints is stemmed in Judaism. On Yom Kippur the Jews would ask their deceased relatives to pray for them.

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