Praying to the Virgin Mary in the Name of Jesus


#1

I heard it at the Stations of the Cross, printed in the little handout. They asked Mary to do things, asking her in the “name of Jesus Christ our Lord”, using the exact same formula, using the exact same language and style and everything used at other stations to pray to the Father. In the context to ask “in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord” meant that Mary is considered at least equal to Christ and on the same level as the Father. Zero differentiation. It said in the text we were praying to Mary for her to do things, not to ask God to do things. The name of Christ was invoked to move Mary to act. I both heard and read this.

This is, as I understand it, completely against Church teaching, yet was done using a devotional published by Catholics, prayed by Catholics, in a Catholic church during a Catholic service, seen and heard by my own two eyes and ears, and introduced by the priest (who then left).

If this is THE one and only true church, how come it has so much false teaching (there was much to critique in the devotional that was used)? Perhaps the author of the devotional was too dense to realize what he had written, but it really should have been caught somewhere. That it was not caught is an indictment of the whole claim of the Catholic Church to be the one true church.

Catholics are supposed to believe everything the Church teaches? How is someone supposed to know this is NOT church teaching when this sort of thing is all they hear?

Or is it Church teaching? Catholics deify Mary after all, despite all the denials on this forum.


#2

Devotion by itself is not a requirement by the Church. If I am hearing this right, they use Mary’s name instead of Jesus during the station of the Cross?

Mary is never invoke in the Station of the Cross in prayer. Correct me if I still misunderstand you.

Take a look at the prayer itself:

usccb.org/nab/stations.htm


#3

As the Protestants are wont to remind us Catholics, Mary is not omniscient. She cannot be everywhere. Thus she will not hear all our prayers. Unless, that is, God makes her aware of our requests. The only way the saints hear our prayers is through some mediation of God. Thus, all communication that occurs between the Christians on earth and the saints in heaven is accomplished “though Jesus Christ our Lord”. It does not mean she is on the same level of Jesus. To the contrary, it means that she is dependent on Jesus to hear our requests.

Lastly, Catholic prayers are often, though not always, worded in such a way that we are asking Mary to pray for some intention. Sometimes, though, the request is formulated differently. An example, as you did not provide any, would be, “Mary, please protect me from the devil.” What we mean is, “Mary please obtain protection from the devil for me from God.” But prayers are not theological treaties, with their attendant verbal precisions. They are prayers, some quite poetic. The point is that such prayers, properply understood, are the equivalent of us asking our friends to pray for us. Note the emphasis. It takes a while to get used to. Sometimes, I’m still taken aback. But this is not a case of the Church speaking out of both sides of her mouth.


#4

If you have the devotion, can you scan it, type it in, or give the name/publisher.

Your post really doesn’t make much sense and it’s useless to speculate on what this devotion “might” be or what prayers “might” have been prayed.


#5

I think there are a fair number of prayers to saints and angels, as well as Mary, that are concluded ‘in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord’. Doesn’t mean we’re placing any of the saints or angels or Our Lady alongside, let alone above, Jesus.

It means we’re praying along with Mary or that saint ***to the Father *** (who of course hears all prayer, doesn’t he? Or do you think he doesn’t listen in if we address a prayer to anyone else?) in the name of Jesus, as we’ve been instructed by Himself to do.


#6

I think this is what was used:
http://www.cokesbury.com/?pid=9780764814174&vsl=0001


#7

They didn’t use the same thing they used last week, which was a combination of Scripture readings from the Gospel and Psalms and challenging questions.


#8

This may be the explanation. But “Mary, take care of us, in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord” sounds like pure blasphemy to me.


#9

You come here making accusations with no proof.

What exactly was said?
By whom?
And was it on Catholic media?

Couple of simple points…

Men are fallible. God is not. God made Jesus and Jesus made the Catholic church. These are infallible though man is still fallible. The Pope is infallible in matters of Faith and Morals because God works through him and the Pope has no power in matters of Faith and Morals because he is still fallible. This started when Jesus made Peter the vicar of Christ and the Spirit of Truth was sent to protect and guard the church. It is the Spirit of truth protecting these Truths through Apostolic succession and the passing of the Keys.

So, was this priest fallible? Possibly. I know of one that has been wrong about the teachings of his own church.

Did you hear correctly? I am sure you did but you are a man and thus fallible.

Was this on approved Catholic media?

That is the question.

Then let us consider some other minor points…

Worship can involve prayer but prayer is not worship necessarily. Why? Prayer is a English word and if you go back to England you will find the root of this word was to make a plea. It has been used in legal papers as such. It is still used that way in all avenues except many protestant churches.

When a Chrisitan prays that are making a plea to God or another. When to God it is part of worship because the plea is to God. To another Chrisitan it is but a plea.

Then we have intercessory prayers…

These are when we ask others to pray for us. I should not have to explain anything here I would think.

God Bless and Peace,

Jack


#10

How so?

Is it blasphemy for the Apostles to baptize “in the name of the Lord”?

As a saint in heaven, Mary can’t do anything against the will of God. Everything she does is through His Will. So when she does anything “in the name of Christ our Lord” she is cooperating in Salvation History.


#11

Do you ask any of your relatives or friends to pray for you? Have you ever said, “I’m sick, pray for me that I get well soon.”?

Why are you deifying a mere human being? I mean, that person can’t answer your prayers, only God can.

I know what you’ll say, that the Bible says we are to pray for one another. True. Jesus says to the Sadducees in the Gospel that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. So those in Heaven and Purgatory (I know you don’t believe it exsists but you’ll find out differently someday) are alive.

The Blessed Mother and the saints are alive. They see God face to face. They also don’t do something that you and I do - SIN!

So please don’t take it the wrong way when I say the Catholics deify Mary argument is not only old, it’s ignorant.


#12

I have a hard time believing a Catholic Church would use Methodist tracts… Cokesbury is a Methodist publishing house.
God’s peace~


#13

WHEW. . .calm down, TS. Seriously. You KNOW that the Catholic Church has not, does not, and will not teach that Mary is in any way on par with the Lord our God. She is a creature. She is a human being. She is the grace-filled mother of the Savior. She is most blessed among women as she resides in the heavenly service of her Son. She is among the communion of saints.

As a member of communion of saints in heaven, the Blessed Mother’s particular intercession is that of a holy one–profitable indeed. Our communion with her and our relationship with her is entirely based upon her communion and relationship with her Son. The ONLY way we can know her and communicate with her is “in” and “through” Christ.

To say, “Mary answer my prayers in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord” is to recognize the Savior for who He is. He is the mediator before the Father and it is only through Him that we can have communion with those saints who are now in full communion with the Father in heaven. This does not in any way insinuate that Mary is equal to the Father. Instead, it insists upon Christ’s power to bridge the divide between heaven and earth.

Catholics are supposed to believe everything the Church teaches? How is someone supposed to know this is NOT church teaching when this sort of thing is all they hear?

The hope would be that those who are faithfully practicing Catholic devotions such as the Stations would also be faithfully pursuing a greater understanding of the faith in general. Obviously this is not the case for everyone, but I would suppose it is the case for you, TS.

Or is it Church teaching? Catholics deify Mary after all, despite all the denials on this forum.

I AM Who AM. She is not.


#14

HI, Truthstalker

Luke. 1:37, nothing shall be impossible with God.
Matt. 16: 19, upon this rock[Peter] I will build my Church.

                    Hail Mary! Full of grace the Lord is with you blessed are you among woman, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus, Holy Mary Mother of God pray] for us sinners now and at the hour of our death Amen .

We as Catholics can conceptualize as soon as Mary’s name is mentioned in prayer that Jesus hears the request in His Mother’s name.

Luke. 16: 19-30, departed rich man intercedes for brothers.

Peace, OneNow1


#15

Your typically good advice…not there yet…will respond later…


#16

I went to this website, but didn’t see anything about Stations of the Cross or about Mary on the page that comes up.

I did a search on “Stations” and came up with 2 pages of books. “Mary” gives over 8 pages.

You’ll have to be more specific and give the title.


#17

Any intercession made by Mary is understood to be through Jesus, with Jesus, and in Jesus.

I think the prayers addressed to Mary in the name of Jesus, if they are genuine, are to be understood in this way:

Suppose you knew someone who was lame and St. Peter and St. John were around. What would you do? With the understanding that it is not by their own power but by the power of God working through them, you might say, “St. Peter and St. John, please heal this lame person in the name of Jesus.” And St. Peter would say to the lame person, as he did in Acts 3:6, “…in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk.”

Suppose you knew someone possessed by an evil spirit and St. Paul was around. What would you do? With the understanding that it is not by his own power but by the power of God working through him, you might say, “St. Paul, please cast out the evil spirit in the name of Jesus.” And St. Paul would say to the evil spirit, as he did in Acts 16:16, “I charge you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.”

So, when prayers are addressed to Mary, asking her to do some mighty work in Jesus’ name (Mark 9:39), they are to be understood not as asking Mary to do something by her own power but as asking her to invoke the name of Jesus that the power of God might work through her, just as the apostles invoked the name of Jesus and the power of God worked through them to cure the lame and cast out demons.


#18

I checked out the link. It doesn’t work the way he posted it. Here’s the correct link.cokesbury.com/?pid=9780764814174&vsl=0001. The booklet is question is published by Ligouri Publications, a Catholic company. So the Methodist bookstore is selling a Catholic booklet.


#19

the link lets you purchase on set of meditations on the stations of the Cross, but does not give the text, so we still have no basis to discuss complaint made by OP. When OP cites a source with link or gives quotes, title and source of work he is referring to, we can comment intelligently. Until he does so, there is nothing to discuss.

For the record, any Christian can pray “in the name of the Lord” and I have frequently heard protestant pastors on the radio and in person do so, so if they can do it, so can Mary. So what exactly is OP’s beef?


#20

The description says that the book is a “nontraditional” Way of the Cross, which sends a flag up for me…“Nontraditional” is usually a:rolleyes: Cokesbury code word for :rolleyes: “don’t worry, this isn’t really very Catholic”.
I speak as a Methodist who has had to:mad: deal with Cokesbury…(I am church librarian"… It has gotten to the place that, unless I have seen the book soemwhere & know what it is, that I don’t buy anything from them…

I use St Faustina’s Way of the Cross. I suppose, her being a relatively new saint, that this might be considered nontraditional, too. But I can almost guarantee that http://bestsmileys.com/sick/7.gif Cokebury will not be selling it any time soon…:frowning: :frowning:


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