Pre-Marriage counseling during an annulment?


#1

Hello all,

I am in the process of an annulment and was wondering if I had to wait for the final paperwork to come through prior to starting premarital counseling/classes through the parish and or diocese?

Let me know what you know!!

-Cathoversal


#2

... also, is it bad that I am engaged? One last thing... Can I get married out of the church, and then get the marriage blessed at a later date?

-Cathoversal


#3

You are not free to marry.

The Tribunal is reviewing your marriage. You may be found to have entered an invalid marriage and be granted a Decree of Nullity. Then you will be free to date and think about marriage.

You may be found to be in a valid marriage. If that is the case, dating or planning a wedding will be very wrong.

Wait on God.


#4

[quote="kage_ar, post:3, topic:193855"]
You are not free to marry.

The Tribunal is reviewing your marriage. You may be found to have entered an invalid marriage and be granted a Decree of Nullity. Then you will be free to date and think about marriage.

You may be found to be in a valid marriage. If that is the case, dating or planning a wedding will be very wrong.

Wait on God.

[/quote]

God to do what? My ex, the one who walked out (not God), filed and it is over civilly. We had our marriage blessed last May, then she left in October. She is not Catholic and even told me and the priest that married us in the Church, the only reason that she went through with getting our marriage blesses was so that I could take the Eucharist when I came back to the Church. We were civilly married for 9 years and married under the Church for less than 5 months before she left. She has also admitted that she lied to out priest.

How does this relate to me waiting? I have known Catholics that did not get an annulment for years after their civil marriage was over, yet they were able to get the new civil marriage blessed... I know there is the preferred way, and the acceptable way.

-Cathoversal


#5

I am sorry your wife left.

I am also sorry you have seen Catholics who "jump the gun" and do scandelous things.

Waiting on God means to be a peace where you are now, knowing that God loves you and wants the best for you. Pray every day that God's will will be done. God does not want you to sin.

Stay close to Jesus and know that if you leave it in God's hands it will be for the best.


#6

Speaking from my personal experience only and remember things may be different in you parish/diocese.

My fiancee and I were not able to set a wedding date in the church or do any pre-cana preperation until after his annulment was completed and we where both considered free to marry. We did date before he received his decleration of nullity but he waited to propose until he was found to be free to marry.

You can marry civily, you have the free will to do as you choose. If you are granted the decleration of nullity you could do your marriage prep then and have a convalidation (church blessing). However, if you do this and your first marriage is found to be valid your new marriage would never be recognized by the church and you would not be able to receive communion while in the invalid second marriage.

It took a while for my fiancee and I to be free to marry but we both feel that it was best to wait and do it the right way rather than rush in and try to “fix” it later.


#7

I am so sorry about your situation. It really, really stinks that your “wife” did that.

Your case is living proof that the church needs to take a different look at divorce cases. If one spouse cruelly walks out on another, why in the world would we punish the non-guilty party by saying, “You can’t get married again.”

Here’s hoping your annulment is granted.


#8

Jesus is the one who said that marriage is for life and that man cannot put it asunder. The Church is not being cruel, we are honoring what Christ commanded.

The Church does not grant annulments, The Church reviews weddings to see if they resulted in a valid marriage. If the Church sees that the wedding did not produce a valid marriage, she issues a “Decree of Nullity”.

If the marriage is found to be valid, the person cannot be married again as that would be bigamy.


#9

[quote="Cathoversal, post:4, topic:193855"]
God to do what? My ex, the one who walked out (not God), filed and it is over civilly. We had our marriage blessed last May, then she left in October. She is not Catholic and even told me and the priest that married us in the Church, the only reason that she went through with getting our marriage blesses was so that I could take the Eucharist when I came back to the Church. We were civilly married for 9 years and married under the Church for less than 5 months before she left. She has also admitted that she lied to out priest.

How does this relate to me waiting? I have known Catholics that did not get an annulment for years after their civil marriage was over, yet they were able to get the new civil marriage blessed... I know there is the preferred way, and the acceptable way.

-Cathoversal

[/quote]

Cathoversal,

I say this with all charity... but it has only been half a year since your wife walked out after having the marriage convalidated? And you already have somebody new that you think you want to marry? That seems like craziness to me.


#10

[quote="Cathoversal, post:1, topic:193855"]
Hello all,

I am in the process of an annulment and was wondering if I had to wait for the final paperwork to come through prior to starting premarital counseling/classes through the parish and or diocese?

Let me know what you know!!

-Cathoversal

[/quote]

This is a question to ask your priest. Each diocese has its own policies. We cannot answer this question for you.

We can tell you our opinion regarding whether or not it is *prudent *to be in a dating relationship and actively in premarital preparation while you are canonically not free to marry. IMHO, that is not prudent.

You are banking on having your prior marriage found to be null. But, until you have the decision of the Tribuanl in hand, you should not do so. There are many people who were "sure" that their marriage would be found null, only to have the Tribunal uphold the marriage as valid.

Or, as grandma would say, "don't count your chickens before they hatch."


#11

Again, IMHO it is imprudent. You have become emotionally involved with someone to the extent that you want to marry them. Yet, you are not canonically free to marry them and may never be so.

Marrying someone when you are not canonically free to do so is adultery. Marrying “outside the Church” only makes you civilly married, but canonically this attempt at marriage is utterly invalid and is adultery. Adultery is a mortal sin.

If you proceed with entering into an invalid marriage, and have sexual relations with this person, you will be placing your soul in jeopardy.

**CAN **you do that? Sure you can. No one can stop you from going to city hall.
Is it **wise **to do that? No, absolutely not.

What you need to do is get some spiritual guidance from your priest. You need to wait for the Church’s determination of your freedom to marry and only after you have been determined free should you make such plans as an engagement to another.


#12

God gives the Church the authority to review the marriage for validity. And, God binds in heaven what the Church binds on earth. If your marriage is found to be valid, you are not free to marry until your spouse dies.

She may indeed have only gone through the convalidation exchange of consent in order to please you and reconcile you with the Church. That does not mean her consent was invalid.

If she intended at the time of the exchange of consent in the Catholic form to leave you, then indeed her consent was *likely *invalid. But, again, until the Tribunal has examined all the facts and rendered a decision, you are not free to marry.

I am not sure what lie you are referring to her telling.

You are not free to marry. Marrying civilly would be to commit adultery.

Not until such time as their original marriage was found to be null. Much more painful are those who divorced, remarried civilly, and then submitted their case only to have their first marriage found to be valid.

These people were then faced with the decision of (a) leaving the spouse to whom they are invalidly married, (b) living as brother and sister until their valid spouse dies, © continuing to live in adultery/mortal sin by disregarding Church teaching.

Don’t put yourself in that boat.

THERE IS NO GUARANTEE you will receive a decree of nullity.

More like the smart way and the foolish way.


#13

Kagh-er
Please show me where in canon law or in the catechism that being engaged or planning a wedding during the annulment process is addressed.

I can find no such reference and I believe it is wrong of you to council someone on canon law when you cannot back it up with documentation but only your opinion.


#14

Yes, there certainly is an element of hurriedness in this entire scenario, and it makes one wonder.

The OP should also be cautious because sometimes a Tribunal will put a stipulation on the decree of nullity surrounding steps necessary before the petitioner can contract a new marriage-- such as mandatory counseling, etc, depending upon the situation.


#15

1ke
Please read your catechism.
Abandonment is grounds for annulment. So is living in an intolerable or abusive relationship. Get your facts and refer to canon law before being irresponsible in your posts.


#16

What is craziness is that both my ex and I knew the marriage was over 2 1/2 years ago. She was already seeing someone else last year. It was me going back to the Church that enabled me to get my marriage blessed… unfortunatly, by that time she had already “checked out”. I figured that the marriage was over, but wanted to get it blessed so I could 1, recieve the sacraments and 2, hoped it would help the marriage survive.

I can see how jumping into another marriage quickly can be scary and makes not senses to some, if not most people. But my counselor (Catholic Charities) enabled me to understand that just because I am in a place in a relationship… it does not mean everyone else is too.

We stayed married because it was the “right thing”… not because we loved eachtother the way Christ loved the Church!

  • Cathoversal

#17

Friend, this is common sense.

I am a married woman. As a married woman, it is wrong for me to date, get engaged to or plan a wedding with another man.

For the time being, in the eyes of the Church, the OP is a married person and they are to behave as married people do.

Should the Tribunal determine that this person never entered a valid marriage, THEN they are free to date.

Civil divorce does not dissolve a marriage.

Here is your Catechism citation

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2384.htm

**2384 ***Divorce *is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.

**1650 **Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil *divorce *and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery” the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.


#18

The Catechism does not state grounds for a decree of nullity. So please produce the paragraph number to which you are referring.

Neither of the reasons you state are “grounds” for a decree of nullity. A decree of nullity indicates one of three things:

(a) a dirimit impediment existed prior to the marriage and no dispensation was received (if dispensable)
(b) defect of consent existed at the time the vows were exchanged
© defect of intent existed at the time the vows were exchanged

Perhaps you are thinking of separation while the bond remains.

OMG, I am LOL.


#19

[quote="Cathoversal, post:16, topic:193855"]
What is craziness is that both my ex and I knew the marriage was over 2 1/2 years ago. She was already seeing someone else last year. It was me going back to the Church that enabled me to get my marriage blessed... unfortunatly, by that time she had already "checked out". I figured that the marriage was over, but wanted to get it blessed so I could 1, recieve the sacraments and 2, hoped it would help the marriage survive.

I can see how jumping into another marriage quickly can be scary and makes not senses to some, if not most people. But my counselor (Catholic Charities) enabled me to understand that just because I am in a place in a relationship... it does not mean everyone else is too.

We stayed married because it was the "right thing"... not because we loved eachtother the way Christ loved the Church!

  • Cathoversal

[/quote]

Yes, your details would lead one to believe a decree of nullity is likely. But, again, not guaranteed.

And, yes, even though you or she may have "check out" of the marriage, you still seem to be rushing into a new relationship. But, that is a discussion for you and your priest under spiritual direction.


#20

Be patient.

Be patient.

Be patient.

Nothing will change if you put off a wedding for a year or so...if you are meant to marry this person.

I put off my own wedding two years. I did not think I was in need of a declaration of nullity, as my marriage took place when I was an unbaptised agnostic married to who I thought was the same (I believed I received Pauline Privilege at my baptism, per my priest...but this was erraneous, through no fault of his). Through a family member of my ex, I learned that he had been baptised as an infant. It sent everything into a tailspin, but I "'fessed up" to the marriage coordinator pronto. We quickly "backed off", wedding was postponed. I started over with the formal process. (Mind you, this is ten years after my civil divorce).

It is worth it to wait until you are right with the Church. Put off the pre-cana, Engaged Encounter, etc. until you are prepared to move forward per Holy Mother Church, and not your own heart.

I know how hard it is. Trust me. It's total **** at the time, but SOOOOO worth it if you wait and do it right.


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