Pregnancy = Death?


#1

Scattered throughout this forum, I've seen posts along the lines of: "If the wife gets pregnant, she will die." I'm a little cynical, so what I generally interpret these posts to mean is: "Please tell me it's okay to use artificial contraception."

Based on failure rates (either typical use or perfect use), it seems that every method of avoiding pregnancy (except abstinence) requires people to balance "Is sex so important that I'm willing to take an X% chance that the wife will die?"

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but I like to think that my husband wouldn't gamble my life like that. :blush:

I have a few questions...

**1. What medical conditions fall into the "pregnancy = death" category?

2a. If you are a man and were in a "pregnancy = death" situation, what would you do?

2b. If you are a woman and were in a "pregnancy = death" situation, what would you do?

  1. Does anyone personally know anyone in this situation? If so, how are they handling it?**

#2

I am epileptic. I would not say that fall into the pregnancy=death category but due to the severity of my epilepsy things get complicated. Now should I get married again I will be practicing NFP - I am a woman (I hope that was obvious:o ). I trust the Lord. I would believe in the Sacramental Graces given by marriage and pray for the intercession of St Gianna Molla.

I knew a priest once who had cerebral palsy. He actually presided at my wedding. (I don't blame him for anything - LOL) He was very greatful to have been accepted into the priesthood due to his disability and that spirit touched his parish in a way that I can't even begin to describe. It was suggested that he aborted. He has touched so many. I cannot imagine not giving a child a chance to be conceived and live due to fear that God would not do what His will for me.

Pax et Bonum,


#3

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:1, topic:221950"]
Scattered throughout this forum, I've seen posts along the lines of: "If the wife gets pregnant, she will die." I'm a little cynical, so what I generally interpret these posts to mean is: "Please tell me it's okay to use artificial contraception."

Based on failure rates (either typical use or perfect use), it seems that every method of avoiding pregnancy (except abstinence) requires people to balance "Is sex so important that I'm willing to take an X% chance that the wife will die?"

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but I like to think that my husband wouldn't gamble my life like that. :blush:

I have a few questions...

1. What medical conditions fall into the "pregnancy = death" category?
None that I know of. My wife was told after her first child that if she had any more, she'd die. She had another and is doing fine. The doctor (who claimed to be Catholic) also suggested she abort Nikole! Said she'd be born brain dead. Although some may argue at times that she is (haha), she's as normal as any 22 year old can be! Doctors don't know everything. God does.

2a. If you are a man and were in a "pregnancy = death" situation, what would you do?
Pray that my wife goes through with it and trust God..

2b. If you are a woman and were in a "pregnancy = death" situation, what would you do?

  1. Does anyone personally know anyone in this situation? If so, how are they handling it? See 1. above.

[/quote]


#4

[quote="Scoobyshme, post:3, topic:221950"]

[/quote]

You da' man Scooby! :thumbsup:


#5

[quote="Scoobyshme, post:3, topic:221950"]

[/quote]

If it's not too personal, would you share the name of the medical condition your wife was diagnosed with? (Please forgive me (or ignore me!) if I the question is too invasive.) :o


#6

When I fell pregnant with my first son I was advised to have an abortion as they thought my child could be Spina Bifida.The consultant told me that if I continued with the pregnancy it would be the only pregnancy I would be able to have as the baby was large and I would have to deliver by C section cut vertically (which would rule out any future pregnancies).I continued with the pregnancy of our beautiful son Stephan born January 13th 1982.Sadly he died shortly after birth due to oxygen starvation.They would not give me a C section in the end & I delivered him breach with a mini C section to drain the fluid on his brain.He wieghed 9lb 3oz & was beautiful.I treasure every moment of pregnancy & short time with him...and would do it again in a heart beat. I subsequently went on to have 3 further sons.I was told after my last son not to risk any further pregnancies as I had placenta preavia with my last one.This meant that the placenta would be born first thus killing the child.With each pregnancy after my first I was told that I should have amniocentises (there is risk of miscarriage with this) I declined as I knew if they thought my child was disabled they would put pressure on my to abort.God blessed me with my children here & in heaven and now wonderful grandsons also.


#7

There's actually NO condition that demands the death of the foetus to cure the woman.

WIth that said, there are conditions that are worsened by the demands of pregnancy which could possibly lead to death of the woman if she were to remain pregnant or the pregnancy was life threatening. However, the pregnancy can be ended with the a live child via. early birth. I hear a lot of cases where people say "Oh, a, b and c will happen if we don't abort" when really, most of these cases where a pregnancy is adversing affecting the woman, they can simply be resolved by bed rest and good medical intervention, until such time as the child is old enough to survive outside the womb.

*.

Subsquently, there are plenty of cases of women dying from various conditions that were not picked up sooner or not properly treated. LIkewise, there are conditions that pop up in pregnancy that kill so quickly as to never really have been picked up at all.

There was a woman in my home town who died a few days after she gave birth due to a complication late in pregnancy which caused a prem labour. Baby survived. Had this condition been predicted earlier, abortion could have been an option, or early labour could have been one. One results in a dead child, one doesn't. Therefore, only one is moral.

There are no guarentees in life, and certainly not with a pregnancy, either people accept that and move on, or they kill a child to try and save themselves, and abortion doesn't always save mummy. I mean, really, any research into late term abortions woudl find that most take place over the period of several days to dilate the cervix to a size that will allow the child ot be removed piecemeal or intact. Can't tell me that late term abortions are required to save a mother's life when she's holed up in a hotel waiting for her cervix to ripen.

As for prevention of pregnancy due to whatever condition that's also rather faulty, no one knows what's going to happen. I had a half brother with autism/epiliepsy and serious allergies, there are quite a few dyslexics in my biological family, including myself, along with other problems, dyslexia, autism and asperges are closely related, there's a good chance I could have a child with autism. Does that mean I should use contraception or abortion to prevent these children being born? Of course not!

Doctors are not always right. I've met my fair share. Trust in God.

If I found myself in a situation where a pregnancy endangered my life, I'd do teh research thoroughly of the condition, take to bed rest, even if that meant hospital, demand pro-life doctors care for me, and try to make it to viability. If I died, then so be it, but i'd rather go to God with a conscience clear of the sin of killing my own child, then live another 60 years knowing I"m a murderer, and then having to explain that to God. In my view, if I'm pregnant, my doctor/lead maternity carer has TWO patients.

As I mentioned above, a woman in my home town passed due to a condition that cropped up. I don't know them personally personally - they're good friends of friends and I've met them a few times. I don't know what their opinion on abortion was, and I don't know if that would have saved the mother, no one does.

I do know of a case where a woman was told she needed an abortion or she'd die, her husband talked her into the abortion, she didn't really want one, but because she had two other children and an elderly father at her house she relented.

The woman died from complications from the abortion. I later heard that the condition wasn't as serious as they thought, the complications that killed her stemmed from a reaction to teh drugs given during the procedure.

Basically, she and baby could have lived.*


#8

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:1, topic:221950"]

**1. What medical conditions fall into the "pregnancy = death" category?

2a. If you are a man and were in a "pregnancy = death" situation, what would you do?

2b. If you are a woman and were in a "pregnancy = death" situation, what would you do?

  1. Does anyone personally know anyone in this situation? If so, how are they handling it?**

[/quote]

My mother has an 'incompetent cervix' (nice name) which opened too early. Of 7 pregnancies there were 2 miscarriages, one preemie almost 3 months early, one baby at 6 months who lived for 2 hours, one baby that required 4 months of bed rest and one normal pregnancy. And then there was a stillbirth at 5 months. She had toxic shock which involves multiple organ failure and required 2 weeks of hospitalization. People usually think of that related to tampons but I think this was b/c the baby had died inside her, which she said also happened with one of her miscarriages. This is extremely rare and in fact my mother said her father was the son of first cousins, a consensual marriage, and she thought him being the child of incest may have had something to do with that b/c birth defects go up, whether that holds one generation down I don't know.

I have actually rarely heard of a pregnancy history like my mother's in America, even when women have lost children early. The combination of stillbirth, bed rest, bad miscarriages, prematurity is really rare. There is a treatment called cerclage which means the cervix can be stitched shut to keep it from opening early. That happened and it's why one of my sisters is alive :) but it did not save the last pregnancy.

In fact I made someone angry b/c she had gotten a 'queen for a day' sob story reputation by saying she had a pregnancy history like my mother's. She claimed twelve pregnancies with 2 premature infants, one disabled, one baby who died at birth like my brother did, one that required total bed rest and 8 lost pregnancies. She did not know my mother or me but what happened was, I met her and I started asking questions in all innocence that showed she had lied. She couldn't answer the questions I had, like how long it took for her babies to gain weight, and how many weeks she had delivered, and her story about bed rest and prematurity did not add up. She claimed she and her husband could hold and touch their very premature infant who was born much before me. Holding a preemie was not allowed in 1968 when I was born, and she was talking about the previous generation, and..I could write pages but I found out this woman was a chronic liar. That is the only case I have ever seen with a pregnancy history like my mother's although I've read some terrible stories here on CAF. :(

2a - can't speak to that. 2b - my mother had psychosis both before and after delivery of the last child, the stillbirth, I was 11 and I witnessed this. She was very out of it and blamed me for killing the baby. She should never have gotten pregnant that last time. She couldn't cope with much due to the medical issues. People with psychosis are usually not dangerous but she was very upset and frantic as well and really really physically ill.

3 - I think her GYN told her that he would refuse to treat her if she got pregnant again. At the time of her last pregnancy, 1980, I was 12 when the stillbirth happened and my sisters were 9 and 3. My mother was 38. She made sure she didn't get pregnant again.

It's funny b/c the woman who lied about her pregnancy history thought I was lying too. She thought I was a narcissist or sociopath out for attention. She attributed her low morality to me b/c she could not believe this could really happen I guess. Her lies were deliberate and told to get sympathy - this was not a matter of being out of it.


#9

Wow, vera dicere, thank you for the detailed response.

I think maybe I should clarify where my confusion lies... some people say "If my wife gets pregnant, she will die" as an excuse to use birth control. (I didn't even think about people using it as an excuse to abort--yikes!!!)

I'm curious what these mysteries diseases are, why no one who claims to have them will name them, and why those couples who do have them continue to have sex at all. Maybe I'm naive, but it seems like a reckless endangerment of life to have sex if pregnancy = death, regardless of what precautions one takes (whether NFP or ABC).


#10

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:9, topic:221950"]
Wow, vera dicere, thank you for the detailed response.

I think maybe I should clarify where my confusion lies... some people say "If my wife gets pregnant, she will die" as an excuse to use birth control. (I didn't even think about people using it as an excuse to abort--yikes!!!)

I'm curious what these mysteries diseases are, why no one who claims to have them will name them, and why those couples who do have them continue to have sex at all. Maybe I'm naive, but it seems like a reckless endangerment of life to have sex if pregnancy = death, regardless of what precautions one takes (whether NFP or ABC).

[/quote]

my mother used ABC after the last one. she said she couldn't go through it again. my father was abusive though and they would have been better off divorced. not b/c of sex or pregnancy but b/c he was abusive and terrible on everyone's mental health.


#11

[quote="silentstar, post:8, topic:221950"]
My mother has an 'incompetent cervix' (nice name) which opened too early.

[/quote]

Thank you for sharing your story! (Sorry I didn't see this post until just now--didn't mean to ignore it earlier!)


#12

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:1, topic:221950"]

I have a few questions...

1. What medical conditions fall into the "pregnancy = death" category?

[/quote]

Congestive heart failure cause by congenital heart defect

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:1, topic:221950"]

**
2b. If you are a woman and were in a "pregnancy = death" situation, what would you do? **

[/quote]

use conservative NFP

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:1, topic:221950"]

** 3. Does anyone personally know anyone in this situation? If so, how are they handling it?**

[/quote]

Yes -me and were using conservative NFP and have been successfully for 14 years


#13

I hope it's not too much to simply reference previous information I have posted on other threads:

(post #23)
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=156831&highlight=Primary+Pulmonary+hypertension&page=2

(post #32)
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=19063&highlight=Primary+Pulmonary+hypertension&page=3


#14

Thank you bluerose and rayne for your stories!

I'm happy to hear that these diseases aren't fictitious (nice to get some actual names of diseases) and I'm especially happy to hear it's not THAT naive of me to think believe that couples actually confronted with the situation would choose abstinence (or in rayne's case, conservative NFP). :thumbsup:


#15

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