Presidential Debate : The Arguing and Insults, And Virginity of Mary


This thread is not about politics. So Please, do not place posts of that type here.

The argumentative debate enabled me to bring up the Virginity of Mary.

While everyone at this forum is used to Scriptural debates most people are not. But this occasion of the debates enables me to bring up the subject with others not on any forum, and to do so in a natural way.

This is my approach.

After the debate last night it seems appropriate we celebrate the feast of Saint Jerome today and what God did through him. He is certainly not the type of person I would want to debate against not just because he was so smart and I would lose but he also knew how to throw a few insults himself. Consider how many he uses in his opening remarks against Helvidius. By denying Mary’s perpetual virginity Helvidius had insulted both Mary and God. So Jerome’s response is understandable.

Saint Jerome please pray for us.

CHURCH FATHERS: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary (Jerome)

…reply to … Helvidius. I have deferred doing so, not because it is a difficult matter to … refute an ignorant boor who has scarce known the first glimmer of learning, but because I was afraid my reply might make him appear worth defeating. There was the further consideration that a turbulent fellow, the only individual in the world who thinks himself both priest and layman, one who, as has been said, thinks that eloquence consists in loquacity and considers speaking ill of anyone to be the witness of a good conscience, would begin to blaspheme worse than ever if opportunity of discussion were afforded him …

It will be surprising and helpful for some Protestants to come to the realization that St. Jerome answered their objections over 1600 years ago.

Next I will use some Scripture verses that are not usually used in this debate.



And people did that prior to Jerome.


Yes and Luther used to call the Archbishop of Mainz the “S***bishop of Mainz” and the Elector of Brandenburg the “Whoremaster on the Spree”

Of course this is a political thread.

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Justification of insults. Interesting.

I may call upon the Book of Sirach.

Why in the world would you start a thread with politics in the title and then forbid people to post about politics? Come on. Obvious hypocrisy here.


The Holy Father just wrote the following about St. Jerome’s harshness:

Jerome’s complete devotion to Scripture is shown by his impassioned way of speaking and writing, similar to that of the ancient prophets. From them, this Doctor of the Church drew the inner fire that became a vehement and explosive word (cf. Jer 5:14; 20:9; 23:29; Mal 3:2; Sir 48:1; Mt 3:11; Lk 12:49) necessary for expressing the burning zeal of one who serves the cause of God. As with Elijah, John the Baptist and the Apostle Paul, indignation at lies, hypocrisy and false teaching inflamed Jerome’s speech, making it provocative and seemingly harsh. We can better understand the polemical dimension of his writings if we read them in the light of the most authentic prophetic tradition. Jerome thus emerges as a model of uncompromising witness to the truth that employs the harshness of reproof in order to foster conversion. By the intensity of his expressions and images, he shows the courage of a servant desirous not of pleasing others, but his Lord alone (Gal 1:10), for whose sake he expended all his spiritual energy.


I am not being a hypocrite.

Unfortunately I have. Committed sins much worse than Hypocrisy .
So I Accept the unjust insult as a
way of making reparation for my other more serious sins that I have committed and of which I have repented .

To be more specific, I accept it without complaint. So I ask moderators to allow much leniency in this thread to those who want to insult me.

There are several things I wish to communicate in regards to apologetics.

  1. Know what the hot button issues are.
    Usually you will want to avoid them but when it is appropriate use them to your advantage.
    This title will get me a wider audience.
    Maybe I am deluding myself but I think I have something To share that’s worth reading.

2… As for me reminding everyone what the form rules are is my attempt to help everyone obey them. I do not want this thread to go off on a tangent. I did not make the rules.

  1. My way of Emphasizing insults helps in 2 ways. 1st I want to point out that some Hot button issues will be useful in some circumstances for some people but not for All… Know your topic and know your audience. As for my neighbor I knew he would receive this format well.

  2. Look for unusual ways to evangelize. Normally it would be very difficult for me to bring up apologetics with my protestant neighbor. This was a perfect Topic and perfect occasion which I knew he would receive well. People talk a lot about apologetics on this forum but how often Do you use it with people not on this forum

More later


Your methods seem rather complex.

Before i get to those verses I want to share another point that I think warrants a new thread.

Most Important Point in Marian Apologetics.

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