Priesthood:Minor Orders & Major Orders


#1

Are all these steps to priesthood still in effect to-day?If no,why not?

MINOR ORDERS
Tonsure
Porter
Lector
Exorcist
Acolyte

MAJOR ORDERS
Subdeacon
Deacon
Priest


#2

Talk about a loaded question…:popcorn:


#3

[quote="Bravo_6, post:1, topic:293020"]
Are all these steps to priesthood still in effect to-day?If no,why not?

MINOR ORDERS
Tonsure
Porter
Lector
Exorcist
Acolyte

MAJOR ORDERS
Subdeacon
Deacon
Priest

[/quote]

They are not ordinarily used.


#4

[quote="Bravo_6, post:1, topic:293020"]
Are all these steps to priesthood still in effect to-day?If no,why not?

MINOR ORDERS
Tonsure
Porter
Lector
Exorcist
Acolyte

MAJOR ORDERS
Subdeacon
Deacon
Priest

[/quote]

The minor orders are not used in the ordinary form of the Mass anymore, and the Subdeaconate has been considered to be a minor order, not a major one.


#5

I know that Lector and Acolyte are used in the formation for the Diaconate in my diocees, and in turn the priest hood. As far as I am aware the other orders are not used anymore.


#6

[quote="bknewto7, post:5, topic:293020"]
I know that Lector and Acolyte are used in the formation for the Diaconate in my diocees, and in turn the priest hood. As far as I am aware the other orders are not used anymore.

[/quote]

Right. But as of 1973, Paul VI suppressed these as orders -- they still exist as steps along the way toward priesthood, but now they're ministries, not orders. See Ministeria Quaedam.

One other effect of the change: men entered the clerical state at the point of tonsure; with these changes, the clerical state is entered at the diaconate.


#7

In the Eastern Churches, the minor orders are still commonly used, especially the subdeacon. But how it is actually used may vary from bishop to bishop. One common use I know of and I believe in the Latin Rite is the same, is that a man is ordained to one of the lower minor orders when he enters seminary. Then as he progresses, he is ordained into the other minor orders until he becomes subdeacon. Now in the East one may remain a subdeacon for a while until the bishop decides to make one a deacon or a priest (which in that case one becomes a deacon and then ordained again shortly thereafter as a priest).

I think in the RC diocese in my area the seminarians are also ordained candlebearers (or torch bearers) when they begin seminary. It now has become symbolic instead of an actual function served during Liturgy.


#8

Aren’t they still used in the FSSP and ICRSS…and to go further, the SSPX?


#9

They are still used in some Societies of Apostolic life.

Otherwise men are granted "ministries" of Lector (which is technically different from the action of "Reader" that regular laypeople commonly perform at Mass) and Acolyte. Lector and Acolyte are lifelong ministries, so if a man receives one or both but then leaves seminary for some reason, he ordinarily retains these unless he is stripped of them, which I think can happen if he is expelled from the seminary for gross misconduct or something.


#10

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:7, topic:293020"]
I think in the RC diocese in my area the seminarians are also ordained candlebearers (or torch bearers) when they begin seminary. It now has become symbolic instead of an actual function served during Liturgy.

[/quote]

If I may say so, that definitely sounds like a +Miller thing.

Probably to do with the Seminary too, since they use CtK.


#11

An English translation of the 1972 Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam is at ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/p6minors.htm .

It includes:

"... 1. First tonsure is no longer conferred; entrance into the clerical state is joined to the diaconate.
2. What up to now were called minor orders are henceforth to be called ministries.
3. Ministries may be assigned to lay Christians; hence they are no longer to be considered as reserved to candidates for the sacrament of orders. ..."


#12

[quote="John_Lilburne, post:11, topic:293020"]
An English translation of the 1972 Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam is at ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/p6minors.htm .

It includes:

"... 1. First tonsure is no longer conferred; entrance into the clerical state is joined to the diaconate.
2. What up to now were called minor orders are henceforth to be called ministries.
3. Ministries may be assigned to lay Christians; hence they are no longer to be considered as reserved to candidates for the sacrament of orders. ..."

[/quote]

But in practice they are almost always reserved to candidates for Orders.


#13

[quote="YoungTradCath, post:12, topic:293020"]
But in practice they are almost always reserved to candidates for Orders.

[/quote]

True in practice... but this is not the stated intention of the Vatican documents.
The Duly Instuted Mministries of Lector and Acolyte (formal roles for which the Reader and Altar-Server are more commonly used) do exist and the Vatican documents and Rites of the Church indicate and expect them to be open to people who are not candidates for higher ministries or Orders.

The Role of the EMHC is also an automatic part of the role of the Acolyte, however it is NOT part of the role of an un-instituted altar server.

The ministry of Exorcist is a position now reserved to specialist priests with additional training. A dioceses is supposed to have one. many do not have any. Where they do exist it is not normally publicised.


#14

[quote="Bakmoon, post:4, topic:293020"]
the Subdeaconate has been considered to be a minor order, not a major one.

[/quote]

Says who?:confused:


#15

[quote="Digitonomy, post:14, topic:293020"]
Says who?:confused:

[/quote]

For one thing, ordination to the Subdiaconate isn't the sacrament of Holy Orders.


#16

Do you have a reputable source that classifies the subdiaconate as a minor order, rather than a major order?


#17

[quote="Digitonomy, post:16, topic:293020"]
Do you have a reputable source that classifies the subdiaconate as a minor order, rather than a major order?

[/quote]

CCC 1554 makes it clear that the Sacrament of Holy orders only exists for the ordination of Deacons, Priests, and Bishops. That's all I meant by it; I mis-spoke (or typed, rather.)


#18

[quote="Digitonomy, post:16, topic:293020"]
Do you have a reputable source that classifies the subdiaconate as a minor order, rather than a major order?

[/quote]

The sub-diaconate was considered a "Major Order" in the Latin Church, but only from the late 12th century, after the rise of Scholasticism. (That did (and does) not affect the Eastern and Oriental Churches, where it has always been considered the last of the Minor Orders.) However, even the Latin Church never officially recognized it as being part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

The subdiaconate is most probably, some say certainly not a true sacrament, but a sacramental instituted by the Church. If it cannot be repeated, this is because the Church has so wished, for she could institute a sacramental similar to a sacrament externally without thereby obliging us to hold that it imprints an indelible character on the soul of the recipient. Wernz (op. cit. infra, No. 158) says: "Since ordinations below the deaconship are most probably not true sacraments, but rather sacramentals they do not imprint the true sacramental character, hence if they are conferred validly, they give a power of order instituted solely by human law and circumscribed by its limits."


#19

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