Priests and Sacraments


#1

Can a priest who is not assigned to a parish still perform baptism, can they still on rare occasions say mass and share it with lay members, perform last rites, hear confession and perform marriages ?

I realize they may need permission of the bishop of a territory to do so but assuming they have been granted that aren't they allowed to perform these sacraments ?

It might seem a silly question, it might even be a silly question, but its something I ponder.

Thanks!


#2

[quote="bitznbitez, post:1, topic:303696"]
Can a priest who is not assigned to a parish still perform baptism, can they still on rare occasions say mass and share it with lay members, perform last rites, hear confession and perform marriages ?

I realize they may need permission of the bishop of a territory to do so but assuming they have been granted that aren't they allowed to perform these sacraments ?

It might seem a silly question, it might even be a silly question, but its something I ponder.

Thanks!

[/quote]

Absolutely!

Very often you'll find a "priest in residence" listed on a parish website. He may be assigned to a school, or a hospital, or doing postgraduate studies, or working in the chancery. He doesn't belong to that parish, but he typically takes his turn in the rotation hearing Confessions and saying Mass at that parish, or subbing at one nearby when the pastor is on vacation or whatever.

As long as he was ordained and has received faculties from the Bishop, he's good to go.


#3

[quote="Richard320, post:2, topic:303696"]
Very often you'll find a "priest in residence" listed on a parish website. He may be assigned to a school, or a hospital, or doing postgraduate studies, or working in the chancery. He doesn't belong to that parish

[/quote]

... but he is assigned there, which isn't the situation that the OP appears to be talking about.

As long as he was ordained and has received faculties from the Bishop, he's good to go.

Correct. Of course, if he wants to celebrate a baptism or a wedding, he should have the pastor's permission. Same thing if he wants to celebrate a public Mass at a parish church.


#4

Are not some masses said in altars outside of parish churches ?


#5

[quote="bitznbitez, post:4, topic:303696"]
Are not some masses said in altars outside of parish churches ?

[/quote]

Yes; a priest may celebrate a private Mass for himself. However, he really should have the permission of the local bishop, though, before celebrating a public Mass in the bishop's diocese...


#6

Bishops permission I understand. And weddings are in the church only.

But things like last rites, confession anywhere he is approached and asked to hear a confession, and baptism in cases where time / life do not permit catechism and moving the person to a parish church these may all be performed by a priest who isn't attached to any parish.

Again its an exercise in theoretical hypotheticals. Just pondering is all.


#7

[quote="Gorgias, post:3, topic:303696"]

Correct. Of course, if he wants to celebrate a baptism or a wedding, he should have the pastor's permission. Same thing if he wants to celebrate a public Mass at a parish church.

[/quote]

I believe you had meant to say: "if he wants to celebrate a baptism or a wedding, he should have the bishop's permission."


#8

Anyone can baptize another when there's no chance of being baptized in the normative manner. A person doesn't even have to be Christian to baptize another.

A priest without faculties can licitly administer the Sacrament of Reconciliation or Last Rites only upon danger of death, but no Sacrament of Holy Matrimony may be witnessed without faculties.


#9

[quote="Stylites, post:7, topic:303696"]
I believe you had meant to say: "if he wants to celebrate a baptism or a wedding, he should have the bishop's permission."

[/quote]

No. Given that he already has faculties in the diocese from the bishop, he nonetheless should have the pastor's permission if he wishes to celebrate a wedding or a baptism.


#10

[quote="Gorgias, post:9, topic:303696"]
No. Given that he already has faculties in the diocese from the bishop, he nonetheless should have the pastor's permission if he wishes to celebrate a wedding or a baptism.

[/quote]

Ah, yes. I see now. Thanks for pointing this out.


#11

[quote="bitznbitez, post:1, topic:303696"]
Can a priest who is not assigned to a parish still perform baptism, can they still on rare occasions say mass and share it with lay members, perform last rites, hear confession and perform marriages ?

I realize they may need permission of the bishop of a territory to do so but assuming they have been granted that aren't they allowed to perform these sacraments ?

It might seem a silly question, it might even be a silly question, but its something I ponder.

Thanks!

[/quote]

To hear confessions: they must have faculties from their own bishop to do so, and permission from the local pastor.

To baptize parishioners: Pastor's permission

To perform marriages: Permission of the pastors of the couple and of the hosting parish. (There have been cases where that means three pastors' consent was needed.)


#12

My mom's cousin (a priest) came in from out of state to do my nephew and niece's baptisms, and will also be coming to do my wedding. He does need permission to do so, but as long as he is given the permission, he is perfectly capable.


#13

Thanks for the answers!


#14

[quote="Gorgias, post:3, topic:303696"]
... but he is assigned there, which isn't the situation that the OP appears to be talking about.

Correct. Of course, if he wants to celebrate a baptism or a wedding, he should have the pastor's permission. Same thing if he wants to celebrate a public Mass at a parish church.

[/quote]

As far as a baptism and wedding, he needs the pastor's permission. A wedding celebrated without the "delegation" from the pastor is invalid. This is serious business, permission is a "shall" not a "should".


#15

[quote="Lapey, post:14, topic:303696"]
As far as a baptism and wedding, he needs the pastor's permission. A wedding celebrated without the "delegation" from the pastor is invalid. This is serious business, permission is a "shall" not a "should".

[/quote]

I always go with the soft-sell approach. "You musts" tend to be received poorly... :cool:

(btw ... a bishop, in the context of a dispensation, can provide the delegation, correct? moreover, written permission -- while always advisable -- isn't always strictly necessary. so, the pastor's 'permission' might be a rather informal thing...)


#16

[quote="Gorgias, post:15, topic:303696"]
I always go with the soft-sell approach. "You musts" tend to be received poorly... :cool:

(btw ... a bishop, in the context of a dispensation, can provide the delegation, correct? moreover, written permission -- while always advisable -- isn't always strictly necessary. so, the pastor's 'permission' might be a rather informal thing...)

[/quote]

Sorry, but sometimes you have to say what truth is, or you lead people atray. delegation is a requirement, not a suggestion. If it is not recieved the marriage is invalid. Whether a bishop can give that delegation or not, I'm not sure; if there is a pastor assigned I believe it must come from that pastor, could be wrong though. Not wrong on the requirment though.

Soft-sell is not a good aproach; sounds like a "spirit of Vatican II" issue...:D


#17

[quote="Lapey, post:16, topic:303696"]
Sorry, but sometimes you have to say what truth is, or you lead people atray. delegation is a requirement, not a suggestion. If it is not recieved the marriage is invalid.

[/quote]

Yes, but it would be odd for a pastor not to know that there's a marriage being celebrated in his parish, wouldn't it? ;)

Soft-sell is not a good aproach; sounds like a "spirit of Vatican II" issue...:D

LOL... guilt by association, eh?

At a parish, in the marriage prep, I'd say "the priest you've picked for the wedding needs to get delegation"; here, since I'm not prepping the couple, I'd say, "you should..." ... :cool:


#18

[quote="Gorgias, post:17, topic:303696"]
Yes, but it would be odd for a pastor not to know that there's a marriage being celebrated in his parish, wouldn't it? ;)

LOL... guilt by association, eh?

At a parish, in the marriage prep, I'd say "the priest you've picked for the wedding needs to get delegation"; here, since I'm not prepping the couple, I'd say, "you should..." ... :cool:

[/quote]

I'm not going to argue with you, it makes no sense. Anyway, I'm just a person who is a minister of the Church who witnesses marriages. In fact, I just got home from a wedding, a validation of a civil marriage where I presided.

You think what you like, but this is not just a passing conversation. The pastor must sign the marriage prep documents, if this is not done, the marriage is invalid; period. Its not just a matter of knowing. You say should, canon law says shall.

Done with this...


#19

[quote="Gorgias, post:17, topic:303696"]
Yes, but it would be odd for a pastor not to know that there's a marriage being celebrated in his parish, wouldn't it? ;)

[/quote]

Weirder things have happened. In one case I remember from 1999, men who were denied ordination by their own bishop were ordained by a bishop of another diocese without even the Pastor of the parish knowing it was going to happen.


#20

[quote="Lapey, post:18, topic:303696"]
The pastor must sign the marriage prep documents, if this is not done, the marriage is invalid; period.

[/quote]

True. The pastor doing the marriage prep must sign the documents. However, this does not imply that the pastor must write a permission for delegation.

I've got an even better case for you. Let's suppose that priests and/or deacons in a diocese have general delegation from the bishop to witness marriages in the diocese (not a far-fetched assumption -- in my home diocese, they do). So, the pastor of a parish might not have given express permission for the wedding to take place at his parish (or even know that the wedding is taking place there, if someone else did the prep), yet the wedding would be valid. Period. ;)

(Even better -- if this general delegation is accompanied with the right of sub-delegation (in my diocese, it isn't), then the deacon or priest (who is not affiliated with the parish) could himself delegate to another priest or deacon of the diocese for a specific wedding. So in that case, the pastor could have absolutely no idea about the wedding or the minister, and the wedding would still be valid. Period. :cool:

Done with this...

I say 'honey', you say 'vinegar'. Whatever. Nice chatting with you. :rolleyes:


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