Pro-Choice "Catholics" are causing scandal (Please Don't Talk About US Elections Here)

A LiveJournal “friend” recently blasted Archbishop Hart of Melbourne for threatening to close Catholic maternity wards and emergency rooms in the face of upcoming legislation, calling it absurd and NOT pro-life. She pointed to “Catholics for Choice” to say that there are some Catholics fully supportive of “women’s rights”.

Why are these people being allowed to call themselves Catholic and confuse people who don’t know or don’t care about the Church’s real position?

By initial poster’s request, Please Don’t Talk About US Elections Here nor political candidates

To me they are not Catholics they may call themselves Catholic.

I always notice the main stream news always talks women’s rights when it comes to pro-abortion. What about the babies’ rights?

Catechism Of The Catholic Church:

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,” “by the very commission of the offense,” and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

I think this should include pro-abortion so-called Catholics

The newsies letting the truth stand in the way of a good story? Nope. Won’t happen.

They should write, “Heretical Catholics” or something like that. If “heretic” be the wrong adjective, they could find the right one if they wanted to.

I realize that you are writing about Australia, but here in the United States there are multiple denominations which call themselves Catholic, and they disagree with the Catholic Church (based in Vatican City) on many doctrinal points. All of these churches, and many others, are free to call themselves Catholic

For example:
American Catholic Church
Reformed Catholic Church
Old Roman Catholic Church in North America
United Catholic Church

Just because someone says they, or their position, is Catholic does not mean fidelity to the real Catholic Church.

Let the believer beware.

FWIW every youngish catholic couple I know personally - that would be about eight - practice birth control. I know far more Christian couples that practice birth control and only one couple that does not practice birth control. They have five children and counting. Typically the guy gets the procedure.

It has nothing to do with religion. It has all to do with economics.

Many of them do also seek rights for the babies, but they debate when the baby is actually a baby. If life were to begin at conception, which is what we Catholics believe (or are, at least, supposed to), then the baby has a right to be born, thus eliminating any right to abortion.

Pro-choice folks, on the other hand, believe that a baby is a life at birth. I don’t know where these pro-choice “Catholics” find their justification other than secular and economic means, but they are clearly not taking their faith seriously. They are actually contradicting themselves… how can you accept a faith that is adamantly pro-life yet accept a movement that refutes the beliefs of the church?

Many of them, including a few friends of mine, take a “cafeteria-style” attitude towards the abortion issue. They find it too trivial to apply to real-world politics and women’s rights. Others like to say they’re “personally opposed” but don’t think that they can impose their rights on other people… I think not. My point is this… we need to find the strength to vote and defend our consciences. If you find the act wrong or evil, don’t support it.

I understand what your saying.

Women are being lied to about abortion. Just like I think the MSM should show the Twin Towers falling down everyday to show what those cowards did.

Abortion photos should be showed the dead bodies, blood, and body parts. Americans don’t know what goes on in those death mills.

I think if they seen it they would get mad about it.

BTW abortion is not an issue its evil. Breaking the Fifth Commandment. I don’t care how much the pro-death crowd sugar coats it evil is evil.

Americans don’t have a choice but to support it. Money is stolen out of our paychecks and the money goes to these death mills hello Planned Parenthood.

My biggest problem is with those who say that they disagree with the pro-abortion crowd but feel that they don’t have a right to impose their beliefs on others.

The pro-abortion mob has no qualms about imposing their beliefs on everyone.

Anyone who even tacitly approves the dismemberment of a living human being in the womb is a monster, taking their place with the other infamous exterminators and ethnic cleansers throughout history whose names are well known to us all.

Faith in America tends to be starkly utilitarian. We tend to start with the conclusion that something is acceptable and then rationalize that our faith is compatible.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.” 2 Timothy 4:3-4

I don’t think it is legal to patent the use of a word. In this case the word catholic or Catholic.:shrug:

I’m with Max on this…There are those “out here” that claim to be members of our “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church” ~under~ Pope Benedict XVI (that one) whom, when it comes to abortion, are not obedient to Church Teachings.

Look around these forums. Search. Oh, there are many here, and many more that are not in this forum.

And when the Catechism of the Catholic Church is quoted-Letters from Bishops and (one) Cardinal (that I know of)-proof that they are in error-they still continue to hold steadfast in their “feelings” or whatever they want to call their reason for defying Catholic definition.

According to Fr. John Corapi: There is no such thing as legitimate dissent from authentic and authoritative magisterial teaching. The word more properly is not dissent, but disobedience. The words that conclude the passage from the Gospel of Luke cited from Vatican II above are relevant: “He who hears you, hears me. He who rejects you, rejects me. And he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me” (Luke 10:16).

cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/corapi/jc03.html

Therefore, continue to defend the True Faith, and you will have a great reward in Heaven.

Awesome to think about, from Congressman Henry Hyde (RIP), who was a defender of the defenseless babes in the womb:
"When the time comes as it surely will, when we face that awesome moment, the final judgment, I’ve often thought, as Fulton Sheen wrote, that it is a terrible moment of loneliness. You have no advocates, you are there alone standing before God and a terror will rip through your soul like nothing you can imagine. But I really think that those in the pro-life movement will not be alone. I think there will be a chorus of voices that have never been heard in this world but are heard beautifully and clearly in the next world and they will plead for everyone who has been in this movement. They will say to God, ‘Spare him because he loved us,’ and God will look at you and say not, ‘Did you succeed?’ but ‘Did you try?’"
Cong. Henry Hyde

God Bless.
+Pax, -Dawn

Well Dawn all I have to say is your just RIGHT!

When I talk to people [Practicing Christians and not practicing] who are pro-death for babies the majority of them; well the bottom line is greed!

“Well I don’t have the money to raise a kid because I need that extra SUV to go with my four bedroom brick house with my wide screen TV.”

When I talk to them I tell them some day, “Your going to have to pass the God test, your going to have to face God and explain yourself.”

I just pray that they think about it and they pray about it and see the error of their ways and stop listening to the Devil.

When you get right down to this; its the Devils works.

This is something that always amazes and irritates a convert like myself. I have to think that these dissidents are either gutless, dishonest or dillusional. To be the most charitable, maybe they are just plain ignorant, but it is hard to imagine how that is possible in this age of information.

Perhaps gutless because they haven’t the courage to leave when they know their views are no longer Catholic in the most critical way.

Perhaps dishonest because they know they are defying Church teaching and teaching authority but do it anyway under the name of Catholic.

Perhaps dillusional in thinking that defying Church teaching will somehow result in seeing that teaching changed to suit them.

Some seem even malicious and bent on destroying the Church by misrepresentation. It is hard to figure them out, particularly for someone who has consciously chosen to affirm the teaching of the Catholic Church, has chosen to submit to the authority of the Catholic Church given by Jesus Christ himself. There was a time when I could have become anything I wanted, a Lutheran, a Methodist, an Anglican, all of which I considered in my journey to the Catholic Church, but was compelled by the truth to be Catholic, frankly the last place I intended to end up. So when I see someone essentially spit in the eye of Holy Mother Church and claim to be one of her children, I am alternately dumbfounded and outraged.

Technically speaking, however, if they are baptized Catholics that mark stays on them throughout their life and into the afterlife, wherever they wind up in the end. And, unless they formally renounce the Catholic Church they are still Catholics, whether or not they are in communion. The door is always left open for repentance, forgiveness and reconciliation, which is as it should be, for that is the will of Christ.
But it would be nice if they were honest enough to identify themselves as dissidents at least. My Baptist family would say that is what you get for baptizing infants and in a way that is always a risk, because everyone has free will when they are old enough to exercise it. But I am inclined to think that formation and catechesis are just as critical in most cases, so that if a Catholic at one point decides to dissent, it will have been based on complete information, an informed decision, as it were.

Uther,
Thanks for a great post. As a cradle Catholic, I have seen much to sadden me from pro-choice Catholics and those Catholics who
’bad mouth" the Church.
I appreciate people such as yourself who remind me of what a gift
we have been given as Catholics.
Several years ago, a school friend (I went to Catholic schools from
K-12th grade) told me that she would be voting based on pro-life for the first time. She told me that she had never really given it
any thought before but from watching EWTN and reading several
web sites, she was horrified that she had not done so before. She
tried to educate some of her family members, but succeeded only
in being ostracized by them. Her family, especially throught her
husband is quite involved politically and you can follow why she
is ostracized. Politics was/is more important.
When I found out the above, we had been attending some meet-
ings (we seldom have seen each except to wave) and after the 1st
meeting, I started talking about the coming elections and some
information I was planning on giving out. I gave her one. After
the next meeting, she told me that things had fallen into place
for her w/our talk, etc and that she had then spoken to her
family.
It is my fervent hope that these forums will be the catalyst for
others who consider themselves pro-choice (but they themselves
are pro-life but wouldn’t “impose” their beliefs on others) to see
the harm and the scandal they give our Church by persisting in
these wrong actions.

What if they are honestly searching?

I lost my faith in the Catholic Church over a month ago, but where am I to go? Simply go away, as in “You’re not wanted here”?

Just because someone’s faith is not full, doesn’t mean they have plans for an alternative. I’ve been a Catholic for 30 years, its part of who I am. I imagine that many “cafeteria” Catholics feel something akin to that. We are caught within conflicting beliefs and values, with no clear resolution.

Are these Churches separated in fact and from from the Vatican? I have never heard of them.

I believe you are right. My point is that they can call themselves Catholic, and do. Its up to each of us to weigh the legitimacy of claim to be Catholic, and that extends to the claims of “Catholics for Choice”.

Hi

Getting back to the Kill Bill in Victoria I wish we had a few pollies like Sarah Palin here in Oz. It seems the so called civilized world is legislating Death everywhere.

Gee Whiz, and here I thought the Vatican and Bishops had something to say about what is Catholic, what is not, who is Catholic and who is not. Silly me.:rolleyes:

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