Pro-Choice Members: Are you against selling fetal tissue?


#1

Why or why not? Thanks.


#2

:frowning:

To me, this is like sayin’ to the German people in Nazi Germany, Nazi members: Are you against shooting Jews in a ditch, performing unethical medical experiments on them and using them for forced slave labor in harsh torturous conditions?

If one has already rationed the murder of the Jews, than there is no point arguing with them over the humane or inhumane ways of doing so. That is not an argument I would be willing to have nor a compromise I would be willing to make. I would only bring it in so forth as to show the true nature of the Nazi people who have no qualms with the murder of the Jews for those who may sympathies with them.

Furthermore, if one has rationed the murder of the unborn, than it would be madness not to sell their fetal tissue and body parts, it’s the only logical outcome of their position.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh


#3

What about “organs”? Planned Parenthood has repeatedly attempted to deflect this conversation to “tissues” alone because it is more sanitized and clinically detached, when in reality the videos have been very specific that this is about both tissue and ORGANS.

Also, if you are opposed to the sale of fetal tissue and organs, do you support the DONATION of said tissue and organs in advancement of medical research?


#4

Planned Parenthood should be just as comfortable selling all the spare parts to a dog food company. Because once you’re ok with murdering babies for a living. What does it matter what happens to the evidence?


#5

Exactly, the answer to all of it is that if your talking to someone who has already reasoned that it’s morally permissible to kill an unborn child, than it’s no longer a moral question, but an efficiency one, and selling or donating fetal tissue, body parts or bringing in more effective methods of killing the unborn is the only logical outcome of their position as it ticks all boxes in the efficiency department.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh


#6

This is the official stance of the United States, as well as many other countries.


#7

Well let me first say I refuse to and absolutely will not allow myself to be drawn into a prolonged debate about this on this thread because I doubt women’s rights, including the right to an abortion, along with this issue, will ever be resolved with a consensus. And certainly not on a Catholic internet forum where the majority are not pro choice. Although you will find many more who are out in the real word. But I happened to see your question so just to answer… My understanding is it is only illegal to sell tissue for a profit. But is legal to donate or to recoup costs. So if it’s only illegal to do so for profit, I try to abide by the law. But I’m not at all against donating fetal tissue for medical research or for a healthcare provider such as PP to legally recoup its costs. If a legal abortion is going to be procured anyway by a woman who has such a legal right, since abortion is not murder under the law, I see no reason why tissue should just be discarded and not be used for some good if such is the choice. Similar to organ donors. But that is my belief. I understand though the Catholic position is a different one when it comes to fetuses. Which is just one of many reasons I don’t practice the faith although I personally would not choose an abortion if I were a woman. The difference between me and you is I do not believe I have the right to force my view on this onto everyone in a pluralistic society. Anyway I expect backlash which is another reason why I won’t be further active on the thread. This is my belief and I respect yours. And I just thank you for asking and the opportunity to express my belief and you are very welcome. As we walk, not by sight, but in faith on this earth and as we consider many issues facing us on this earth, including but certainly not limited to, issues surrounding this matter, life, the sacredness of all life including that of the woman, how to balance the rights of the unborn with those of women, if such a balance is even possible which I doubt, and consideration of human life compared to personhood and personhood rights, may God bless us all.


#8

Thanks for you comment. I hope you continue to be active in discussions regarding abortion rights!


#9

You are right.

That is exactly the difference, because the right to life is a moral absolute, One which we are all obligated to follow regardless of our knowledge of it. It is the same moral absolute which compelled our ancestors to combat Nazi Germany during WWII and fight against all manner of injustices and evils throughout history. Our ancestors who fought and died were not fools, they did not say anything akin to “The Germans have their morality and we have ours.” No such philosophy could ever be reconciled. No, they knew there were moral absolutes which overruled those who knew them just as much as those who didn’t know them or denied them.

Furthermore, why do we have laws at all? after all, if we live in a pluralistic society where it is not appropriate to force ones moral view onto another, why do we have laws against rape? theft? murder? is this not the same thing? are not all laws subject to your very same accusations?

The fact of the matter is there are moral absolutes, which dictate the right to life, ruling over those who know it and those who don’t or deny it, whether they obey it or not.

Not all moral absolutes have the same moral weight and therefore allows for pluralism to a degree, but there comes a point in which men and women must have the courage to say there is a price we will not pay and there is a point at which one must not advance.

*“The truth is the truth even if no one believes it and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it.” *

  • Fulton J Sheen

*"You are called to stand up for life!..You are called to work and pray against abortion……….” *
St Pope John Paul II -

I hope this has helped

God Bless

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Thank you for reading
Josh


#10

One question: can you tell me the difference between a 24-week gestational age premature baby outside the womb and a 24-week gestational age fetus inside the womb? In terms of law, a person can legally kill the latter child, but will be tried and perhaps sentence to life in prison for killing the premature child. What sense does this make?

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh


#11

“Give us the grace… When the sacredness of life before birth is attacked, to stand up and proclaim that no one ever has the authority to destroy unborn life.”

  • St Pope John Paul II

“Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what it wants.”

  • Mother Teresa

#12

The difference between the 24 week old premature baby whose life they are fighting to save and the 24 week old baby they just killed is one is wanted and loved and the other isn’t. Tragic and sad.

Josh, thank you for standing up for life. I enjoyed that passage you quoted. I hope women take heed of it.


#13

All great responses, except for it was a either or question. I think I know this CAF member by his posting history, and I certainly don’t believe that he is not pro-life.
I think sometimes people just post a question. I don’t see anywhere on any thread where he claims to be pro-choice.
:blush:
I think he just honestly wanted to get the info. Perhaps he is debating a pro-choice person in his life? If so, he certainly has some great ammo now.


#14

:frowning: I agree.

Thank you jaimeleglise, me too.

God Bless You

From other posts I have come across of TK421’s, I would be extremely surprised if he supported abortion in any way shape or form. :wink:

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh


#15

I would be genuinely surprised if that would be true. Usually, pro-choice only say they do not want to force their view upon everyone else, but the moment one turns away from any other issue but abortion, they are forcing their views upon anyone else all over the place.

E.g. hunting, gun ownership, buying child-labor/third-world manufactured cheap goods, not giving citizenship to illegals, deporting criminal illegals, self-defense laws, taxes and too much to name it all.

Similar, one can only respect what one remotely understands. Which pro-choicer probably do not do, otherwise they would not argue, that pro-lifer are forcing their view upon all other people without noticing that pro-lifers are mainly aimed at nobody forcing their view upon unborn humans, that they are actually non-humans.

The first step regarding when facing this issue is to accept that both the pregnant woman and the unborn human have rights; the second step is to call out anyone denying one or both till that someone either quits the discussion or agrees that both women and unborn have rights. Then one can have the complicated discussion, how to resolve the issue.

But as no pro-choicer i am aware of, calls planned parenthood to either shut up or stop pretending that unborn humans have no rights, few pro-choicer seem to agree with Sy Noes statement.


#16

I do not think pro-choice people can be realy against selling even selling for profit.

After all, they consider it to be non-humans and organs of non-humans are usually traded for profit, so why not with these non-humans?

They will be in favor of keeping the law, but will also be ok with changing the law to allow for profit selling.


#17

Good post.

Have you ever noticed some people who tried to kill Hitler and some other high ranking Nazis are seen as heroes today, they are celebrated for their bravery in trying to put a stop to a true evil, yet when radical prolifers try to do similar things to abortion providers, they are vilified and called terrorists?

I do not condone any violence, but cant understand why we would celebrate certain acts of killing and vilify others?


#18

How could you ever do that? You only have 1 vote too, right?


#19

The difference I believe, is that killing Hitler likely would have ended the war. However, killing an abortionist would only make them a martyr for such a cause, they will be replaced tomorrow and many backlashes would occur, not to mention we can’t combat hate with hate, murder with murder, we must be better than our enemies or else we have already lost. Fortunately we live in a democratic society, Australia and the US, so we all have every means of changing it, it’s just so awful that there are either so many supporters of it, or there are too many who are too afraid to stand up and say as St Pope John Paul II said “Give us the grace… When the sacredness of life before birth is attacked, to stand up and proclaim that no one ever has the authority to destroy unborn life.”

A politician should know that if they support abortion in any way shape or form, they will lose the majority of votes. That is how we can win.

Change the people, we change the votes, we change the government and then this cruel and barbaric practice can be stopped. We need another Martin Luther King and more general citizens to stand behind such a person in order to combat this great evil that has seeped into our cultures, by staying in the dark and quiet, until it had enough power to rear it’s ugly face.

The time is now, every single person especially Christian I believe should be at the voting polls to combat this evil and helping educate their neighbors of this evil so they will vote likewise, making sure the pro-life politicians get all of our votes.

It’s time for this to end, it’s gone on for too long, and the only reason is because it’s kept in the dark and quiet, and if it’s not stopped, if people don’t stand up to it, than one day, when it has gained the strength, the weight of numbers, it will rear it’s ugly head and there will be nothing anyone can do to fight against it.

I truly believe the degradation of the west is easily due to this one issue alone. I thirst for this to end, we all should. What a great day it will be when this evil is stopped and we are all able to share in the fundamental right to life, not limited to only those who can defend themselves.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh


#20

Thank you mikekle

God Bless You

Josh


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