Pro-life as if People Mattered:Economics Alone Cannot Solve the Abortion Problem

A great article which examines the defense for voting for pro-choice politicians

The author makes a number of very good points about the Vote for the D and abortions will go down! argument.

He makes several good points, among which are:
Economics is not the only reason listed by women getting abortions

The advent of R governors and consequent abortion-limiting laws was concurrent with reductions in abortion rates

Nations with bigger social safety jets and have lower abortion rates also have what many D pols here in the US would consider draconian restrictions on abortion

While reducing abortion is important, making laws against the practice is also if not more important

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If economics were the only factor, then why does Sweden have a higher abortion rate than the US?
In 2015, the latest year for US stats, Sweden was 20.9 per 1000 women. The US was 11.8.


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I think it’s good you are educating yourself on this @Annie . I can’t find the strength nor the heart to read about it. I’ve never been made to engage in this specific polemic (that gives a prearranged set of arguments and counter-arguments). Generally I just remind people to think about someone they love and if they’d be happier to have them alive or not, and what they’d be willing to do for the gift of life. Surprisingly their answer, once they think about it, is always the same.

God bless.

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Man! The left is absolutely soiling its collective pants over how to remain relevant so as to regain power. Therefore, let us employ pretzel logic so as to make evil good!

But wait! Abortion is a constitutional right! Therefore, it is a good thing. Don’t we want MORE exercise of rights? Or are they now pandering (yes the are) to democrat voters who feel disenfranchised?

Pretty much.

The only thing missing is Jon Lovitz promoting the idea: “Yeah, that’s the ticket…!”

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Yeh, with Rauner at the head.

I’m pretty ignorant on the matter, but some democrat policies would honestly make the economy worse anyway.

Possibly. But Sweden is the 13th richest country in the world while America is 10th on a per capita basis. $47,311 and $54,151 respectively. The gap isn’t that wide.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/06/21/richest-countries-in-world-based-on-income/35953213/
Per capita is just an average and the super rich can skew numbers to the higher end and America has many billionaires. So we’ll look at wealth distribution. We can look at inequality after taxes and redistribution of wealth. Sweden has the least inequality while America has one of the highest inequality.

How do you think this affects abortion rates?

The assumption is that their policies will be similar and will have the same effect as Sweden though.

I’m not republican or even American and I’m not opposed to certain social programs but I just can’t see any recent democrat idea being worthwhile.

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Not as much as people think it does. The economics argument isn’t a good one. I should add Sweden has a much more generous maternity leave policy than America. The cost of giving birth is also lower if I recall correctly.
Social attitudes and laws may be more important than economics. Swedish society is overwhelmingly pro-abortion whereas America is split. We know in America, pro-abortion states have higher rates of abortions than those that restrict abortions.
If we looked at income inequality, Utah is the most equal and has a very low abortion rate. New York is very unequal and has a very high abortion rate. Looks like poverty has a role. But Texas is rich and unequal like New York but the abortion rate is much lower. Alabama is poorer than these other three states but still has a lower abortion rate. Utah is Mormon country and Texas and Alabama are more religious than NY and they have more pro-life laws than NY.


https://www.inquirer.com/philly/blogs/phillylists/States-with-the-highest-abortion-rates.html
So yes, having laws that restrict abortion on demand is important too.

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I can’t predict what the Democrats will do or what the effects are. I’m not against the welfare state. But I can say for certain abortion is not really a pure economic issue.

Abortion is mostly a social and values issue. Societal attitudes and laws have much greater impact on abortion rates than economic policy. It’s quite clear being wealthy and equal isn’t going to cut abortion rates on it own. After all, I’ve seen stories where women who aren’t in poverty had abortions because having children would get in the way of their careers or lifestyle.

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Yup, that’s definitely accurate

Which ones?

Let’s talk about Republican economics. Since the days of Ronald Reagan, the national debt has gone up by leaps and bounds when a Republican was in the White House. Why? Because Republicans spend like crazy, but refuse to pay for that spending with taxes.

Medicare for all + illegal immigrants, free college, green new deal etc.

Proposed policies we are hearing from the candidates seem pretty cool until you look at how feasible they are. Which they aren’t.

This what-about-ism is pretty much a waste of time since I’m not a Republican/American and this thread was looking at the idea about Democrats in particular.

If it were not for the abortion issue, the majority of Catholic would vote for Democrats, because of their stand for things like affordable health care, social security, medicare, etc.

People do matter, but no only in the issue of abortion.
People matter when it comes to receiving quality, affordable health care.
People matter when it comes to receive a living wage from employers.
People matter when it comes to gaining social security, medicare, and affordable medications.
I am as concerned about those who are living as I am about those who have yet to be born.

We live in a time of relative prosperity. This is undeniable. We do certainly have poverty, but never in the history of humanity have we been able to distribute resources so well to so many.
In the US we’ve spent billions of dollars on housing, and feeding, and doctoring the poor over the last several decades.

And at the same time
We have killed tens of millions of children.

The assertion that abortion is primarily about scarcity of resources is a lie. Abortion is about perpetuating personal license and absolute personal autonomy.
And you can see this on these forums daily. When the pro-death arguments run out, the last resort is “I can do what I want and no one can tell me otherwise”, AKA “bodily autonomy”.

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There are medical cases even the church agrees if but reluctantly you can have an abortion so don’t give me that.

Rather than demonizing those who seek abortions, we should try to figure out how to remedy the things that bring some women to seek abortion in the first place.

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