Pro Life


#1

Is it right to hold others to our beliefs when it comes to abortion?

Many democrats will say the right to choose the best route, in a way this sounds good, you know free choice, but if we agree that abortion is killing, is murder of a living human, than can we walk away from our beliefs that easy, if we choose to stay quiet on those morals and teachings that we believe are to be true, than which ones do we not abandon? Where do we draw the line.

This question is for my Democratic friends on this site.

As Catholics we do not believe in the use of contraception or condoms as forms of birth control. In this case should we then force these morals and doctrines of faith on the rest of our society?

What if Roe vs Wade was over turned, and abortion was made illegal. Lets say that contraception and all the other forms of birth control remained legal.

Real world example

A young woman that is living on the streets as a prostitute, uses drugs, just gets by, some how surrivives each day moving forward, would we as Catholics, would our Church allow our government to make law that abortion is legal, contraception up to life is legal, and in sad cases like this take away the right to that woman that keeps bringing new life into the world, (crack babies) would we allow this womans tubes to be tied to prevent this from happening again? Even though it is against our beliefs, is this not the best answer?


#2

the best answer is that she changes her life completely around from the drugs, prostiution, etc.
Tying her tubes isn’t going to fix the problems she has in her life.


#3

so between now and the time when she does/ if turn it around, how many abortions will take place and with the case of abortion being illegal, how many crack babies will be born while we hope that she would be that very rare case that can turn it around.

God has given us free will, what would he want us to do with this woman?

To be honest I think abortion should be illegal, because I know its wrong. I can not walk away from my morals and ethics on an issue like this.

Yes there is always hope, yes there is always prayer, but meanwhile what actions do we take in this matter when a drug abused woman, a prostetute keeps bringing new crack babies into this world?

I would hope that all of her rights would be taken away and she be put away so that se cannot keep leading this life. But that cost money too.

So again what are our actions after this takes place?


#4

[quote=Texan in DC] Is it right to hold others to our beliefs when it comes to abortion?
[/quote]

Abortion is not merely a religious belief, it is a matter of human rights. Society exists and laws exist to protect people and advance the common good. Killing people is not a good, and cannot be held as good. Killing the vulnerable-- unborn, babies, elderly, disabled-- is not not something civilized people do. Utility does not define our personhood, our right to life.

[quote=Texan in DC] Many democrats will say the right to choose the best route, in a way this sounds good, you know free choice, but if we agree that abortion is killing, is murder of a living human, than can we walk away from our beliefs that easy, if we choose to stay quiet on those morals and teachings that we believe are to be true, than which ones do we not abandon? Where do we draw the line.
[/quote]

Huh?

[quote=Texan in DC] This question is for my Democratic friends on this site.
[/quote]

I am neither “Democrat” nor “Republican”. I vote for specific candidates based on their integrity, and their stand on issues. But, I’m answering your questions anyway.

There are Democrats who are pro-life and there are Republicans who support abortion, so really this is not an issue that can be framed as an issue only with Democrats.

[quote=Texan in DC] As Catholics we do not believe in the use of contraception or condoms as forms of birth control. In this case should we then force these morals and doctrines of faith on the rest of our society?
[/quote]

Catholics must be true to their faith and therefore cannot support laws that conflice with our faith. At one time, contraceptives were illegal in this country-- these laws were struck down by the Supreme Court under the fabricated “right to privacy”. However, this does not “force” our morals on anyone as the US has a democratic process.

[quote=Texan in DC] What if Roe vs Wade was over turned, and abortion was made illegal. Lets say that contraception and all the other forms of birth control remained legal.
[/quote]

One down, one to go.

[quote=Texan in DC] Real world example

A young woman that is living on the streets as a prostitute, uses drugs, just gets by, some how surrivives each day moving forward, would we as Catholics, would our Church allow our government to make law that abortion is legal, contraception up to life is legal, and in sad cases like this take away the right to that woman that keeps bringing new life into the world, (crack babies) would we allow this womans tubes to be tied to prevent this from happening again? Even though it is against our beliefs, is this not the best answer?
[/quote]

No, it is not the “best answer”. Treating her as a person with inherent dignity and integrity would be the best answer. Treating her as a dog to be sterilized is not the answer.


#5

[quote=Texan in DC] so between now and the time when she does/ if turn it around, how many abortions will take place and with the case of abortion being illegal, how many crack babies will be born while we hope that she would be that very rare case that can turn it around.
[/quote]

So, are you saying that a baby born to a prostitute does not deserve life?

You’re saying that a person committing a serious of self-abusive acts should be encouraged to commit another. Great plan.

[quote=Texan in DC] God has given us free will, what would he want us to do with this woman?
[/quote]

God has given the woman free will also. And, it is not your place nor mine to “do” anything with this woman other than offer her true help. Sterilization is not true help.

[quote=Texan in DC] To be honest I think abortion should be illegal, because I know its wrong. I can not walk away from my morals and ethics on an issue like this.
[/quote]

Well, good.

[quote=Texan in DC] Yes there is always hope, yes there is always prayer, but meanwhile what actions do we take in this matter when a drug abused woman, a prostetute keeps bringing new crack babies into this world?
[/quote]

“We” (do you mean The State?) do not take any action, other than teaching her the Truth and helping her to get off of drugs, and have respect and integrity for herself.

As individual Catholics we are called to evangelize and to the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. Lieing to someone and encouraging them to sin is not a work of mercy.

[quote=Texan in DC] I would hope that all of her rights would be taken away and she be put away so that se cannot keep leading this life. But that cost money too.
[/quote]

That is a violation of her dignity as a person and her free will. And, who are you to decide “who” gets put away. Today prostitutes, tomorrow Jews, and Catholics… oh wait, we already fought a war about that. The State does not get to decide that.

[quote=Texan in DC] So again what are our actions after this takes place?
[/quote]

Love and mercy for her and her child/children.


#6

Many people have seen a parallel between abortion and slavery. Today, the Supreme Court does not recognize the life of a baby as a full-fledged human being, worthy of saving; during the Civil War, the Supreme Court categorized slaves as 3/5 of a human being - and if the slave masters wanted to kill them, that was their legal right.

President Lincoln realized that “a house divided against itself could not stand.” America could not continue part slave-holding states and part free. Today, America is torn apart, because although “Roe vs. Wade” is the law of the land, the majority of Americans do not support abortion on demand. We are still a house divided.

The real question is: is the baby a human being from the time it is conceived? If so, does that child have rights? A slave was legally considered 3/5 of a human being during the Civil War. This example shows us, with certainty, that the Supreme Court can be deard wrong on a very significant issue.

During the Civil War, many people doubtlessly argued that they were against slavery, they would never think of owning a slave themselves, but they would not deny another person the “choice” to be a slave holder. Where would we be today if that thought process had prevailed?


#7

[quote=Texan in DC]so between now and the time when she does/ if turn it around, how many abortions will take place and with the case of abortion being illegal, how many crack babies will be born while we hope that she would be that very rare case that can turn it around.

[/quote]

You know my thought with this is what if that one baby that is created in such harsh invirments turns out to be the one person who finds the cure for cancer or the cure for AIDS. Or maybe part of the court who over turns roe v wade. Or maybe he is our future Pope. Or maybe he will die within the first year of his life.

The point is God never makes mistakes, we do. And when it is said that he has known our name from the begaining of time, that to me means he has a plan for each and everyone of us. We all have our own crosses to bear and growing up in a rough situtaion may be that cross. It doesn’t mean your life is over though.

My own mother had such a horrible abusive marriage that rsulted in five children (most because of rape) I thank God every day that she did not have such low regard for life as to have us killed, just because the situtation wasn’t ideal. We are all doing great by the way all of us are married with children

When we start making Gods of ourselves by juging who gets to live and die we are only distroying our own chance of true happiness. Lets let God be God and we can just be the servants who will help the women who needs it. Remember, wasn’t Mary Magdelin a prostute? And Jesus loved her very much. :wink:

God Bless,
Monica


#8

**GRISWOLD v. CONNECTICUT **
U.S. Supreme Court
381 U.S. 479 (1965)
Decided June 7, 1965.


#9

[quote=Texan in DC]Is it right to hold others to our beliefs when it comes to abortion?

Many democrats will say the right to choose the best route, in a way this sounds good, you know free choice, but if we agree that abortion is killing, is murder of a living human, than can we walk away from our beliefs that easy, if we choose to stay quiet on those morals and teachings that we believe are to be true, than which ones do we not abandon? Where do we draw the line.

This question is for my Democratic friends on this site.

As Catholics we do not believe in the use of contraception or condoms as forms of birth control. In this case should we then force these morals and doctrines of faith on the rest of our society?

What if Roe vs Wade was over turned, and abortion was made illegal. Lets say that contraception and all the other forms of birth control remained legal.

Real world example

A young woman that is living on the streets as a prostitute, uses drugs, just gets by, some how surrivives each day moving forward, would we as Catholics, would our Church allow our government to make law that abortion is legal, contraception up to life is legal, and in sad cases like this take away the right to that woman that keeps bringing new life into the world, (crack babies) would we allow this womans tubes to be tied to prevent this from happening again? Even though it is against our beliefs, is this not the best answer?
[/quote]

Abortion is murder. Our society has always impressed its fascist belief that murder is wrong on its citizens. Then in 1973 it became legal to kill babies when they were inconvenient. Now it’s becoming legal to kill the elderly for the same reason. I ask your friend the same question: where do we draw the line?
There was a time in this country when contraception and abortion were illegal. You know what? It wasn’t that bad. The majority of marriages stayed together till death did they part, and children were raised in stable two parent environments. It wasn’t perfect, but the number of women and children sexually exploited was far lower, and the men who did it were ostracized.
Your friend’s “scare tactic” is ridiculous. It’s not like this country would ever literally become a theocracy where people were imprisoned for missing church on Sunday. As for his question about where the line would be drawn, i would say society has an obligation to protect its citizens from murder and sexual exploitation. As far as birth control, many pro-life protestants use condoms in lieu of the pill so they don’t chemically abort any babies. As protestant as this nation is and has always been, the odds of all contraception being outlawed are slim.


#10

Why the pessimism? Selling contraceptives was illegal in this Protestant nation for most of its history – contraceptives were only legalized in 1965. Aren’t all Catholics obligated to try and make contraceptives once again illegal?

We will either stand as one nation united under God, or fall as a nation in defiance of God.


closed #11

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