Progressives Ask: Is It Obama, Or Is It Us?

[quote="ConcernedApathy, post:19, topic:201188"]
Count me among the disappointed, He talks progressive but I can barely hear him since he's standing in the middle of the road. He's a centrist, a moderate and a disappointment. I wanted a liberal, somebody who would fight for my core beliefs for once and that didn't happen. Then again I always thought Hillary was the better choice...

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At least I can say I caucused for Kucinich.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:4, topic:201188"]
Could not disagree more.

He did not even stand up for the Public Option. A politician governing from a Progressive standpoint would have pushed for single payer and never settled for anything less than a robust public option.

Obama is a centrist, through and through. And many are disappointed.

[/quote]

Yes! and I rarely visit this political forum,because you are damed if you do and damed if you don't agree, no matter who the leaders are. May God give us all the wisdom to do His will on earth as it is done in heaven.Amen.Carlan

[quote="Suudy, post:20, topic:201188"]
What core beliefs would those be? What about being a liberal do you wish that Obama would have pushed harder for?

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  • single payer
  • robust public option
  • employee free choice act
  • gay and lesbian rights
  • repealing more tax cuts for the wealthy and doing it more quickly (both reagan and bush cuts)
  • take a significantly harder stance on israel
  • get out of iraq more quickly
  • close guantanamo more quickly
  • end the war in afghanistan
  • cap and trade
  • more spending on green energy
  • much more robust financial reform
  • reduce military spending
  • repeal nafta
  • comprehensive immigration reform

for a start...

[quote="jjdrury81, post:23, topic:201188"]
- single payer
- robust public option
- employee free choice act
- gay and lesbian rights
- repealing more tax cuts for the wealthy and doing it more quickly (both reagan and bush cuts)
- take a significantly harder stance on israel
- get out of iraq more quickly
- close guantanamo more quickly
- end the war in afghanistan
- cap and trade
- more spending on green energy
- much more robust financial reform
- reduce military spending
- repeal nafta
- comprehensive immigration reform

[/quote]

Obama is opposed to none of these. He may not have placed the priority on them you wanted, but he is not actively blocking attempts to do any of these. So how exactly do you think Obama is a centrist?

If congress passed legislation on any of these, Obama would certainly sign the bills. So I fail to see how Obama can be considered anything other than a leftist.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:23, topic:201188"]
- single payer
- robust public option
- employee free choice act
- gay and lesbian rights
- repealing more tax cuts for the wealthy and doing it more quickly (both reagan and bush cuts)
- take a significantly harder stance on israel
- get out of iraq more quickly
- close guantanamo more quickly
- end the war in afghanistan
- cap and trade
- more spending on green energy
- much more robust financial reform
- reduce military spending
- repeal nafta
- comprehensive immigration reform

for a start...

[/quote]

Good Lord!!! You are for almost everything I am against! Man, despite being from Mass originally, I must be truly conservative.

FSC

[quote="Suudy, post:24, topic:201188"]
Obama is opposed to none of these. He may not have placed the priority on them you wanted, but he is not actively blocking attempts to do any of these. So how exactly do you think Obama is a centrist?

[/quote]

He has not pushed for any of the above. He briefly pushed for a weak public option. But that did not last long.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:23, topic:201188"]
- single payer
- robust public option
- employee free choice act
- gay and lesbian rights
- repealing more tax cuts for the wealthy and doing it more quickly (both reagan and bush cuts)
- take a significantly harder stance on israel
- get out of iraq more quickly
- close guantanamo more quickly
- end the war in afghanistan
- cap and trade
- more spending on green energy
- much more robust financial reform
- reduce military spending
- repeal nafta
- comprehensive immigration reform

for a start...

[/quote]

In other words you are looking for a European style welfare state. In case you havent noticed its not working out very well over there anymore. as Margaret Thacher said the problem is sooner or later you run out of other peoples money to spend.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:26, topic:201188"]
He has not pushed for any of the above. He briefly pushed for a weak public option. But that did not last long.

[/quote]

So how does that make him a centrist? Do you disagree that Obama would happily sign any legislation implementing your wish list?

Obama is not a centrist. Not by a long shot.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:26, topic:201188"]
He has not pushed for any of the above. He briefly pushed for a weak public option. But that did not last long.

[/quote]

How long could he push when the majority of american people don't want many of the things on your list. He would be wasting his time, and wasting a lot of political capital on losing propositions. For as much as he watered down the healthcare law from what he originally wanted, the dems had to jump thru hoops to get that passed by the skin of their teeth.

Obama was not the winner of a mandate like many people thought, but rather the beneficiary of an unpopular George Bush. Many independents voted for Obama out of dislike for the previous president...now they are unhappy with their decision to vote for him...at least based upon current polls and mid-term election results to date.

I kind of wish Obama would support those items on your list...It would ensure he would not get re-elected in 2012.

[quote="Suudy, post:28, topic:201188"]
Do you disagree that Obama would happily sign any legislation implementing your wish list?

[/quote]

I honestly do not know. He would likely sign any of the above legislation. But I have no idea if he would do so 'happily'. However, that is not really the point. The point is that he has not pushed for any of these issues. Obama has decided to take the route of governing from the center. And he is killing the Democratic Party as a result.

Obama needs to stand up for the base that handily won him the election.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:30, topic:201188"]
I honestly do not know. He would likely sign any of the above legislation. But I have no idea if he would do so 'happily'. However, that is not really the point.

[/quote]

Yes, it is the point. You keep claiming Obama is a centrist. He isn't, since you just admitted that he would sign any of your wish list. He is clearly a leftist.

Bush didn't push for any of your wish list either. So does that make him a centrist?

The whole is point is that Obama is not a centrist, despite your claims otherwise.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:30, topic:201188"]
The point is that he has not pushed for any of these issues. Obama has decided to take the route of governing from the center. And he is killing the Democratic Party as a result.

[/quote]

Bush didn't push for abortion legislation, but did not make him a centrist. He knew the political realities, just as Obama knows them now. Obama can't get congress to pass any of your wish list because he knows that it won't happen with a split congress. But that certainly does not make Obama a centrist.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:30, topic:201188"]
Obama needs to stand up for the base that handily won him the election.

[/quote]

Perhaps. That's your opinion. I think Obama is acting in a politically expedient manner. He is trying to get done what he can get done, and not pushing for things that have no possibility of being passed right now. I think if he were to see your wish list, he would ignore chunks of it because it would be 1) a waste of energy and effort, and 2) perhaps politically damaging, without a significant majority support.

[quote="bbarrick8383, post:15, topic:201188"]
There are progressive "utopia's" all over the world. I just can't seem to think of a way to help them realize this and venture forth upon lands that already embrace this that they dream of.

Can you imagine, I'd feel like Carl after finally getting Steve Urkel to leave the house.

[/quote]

A progressive America is worth fighting for!

On your choice of metaphor. In the end Steve ended up living with the Winslows, marrying Laura and in one of the last scenes Carl was more than happy to spend time with Steven.

In the same way the day could well come that people will be glad we fought this fight (and won!)

[quote="Suudy, post:31, topic:201188"]
Yes, it is the point. You keep claiming Obama is a centrist. He isn't, since you just admitted that he would sign any of your wish list. He is clearly a leftist.

[/quote]

That is faulty logic. It would mean his political death if any member of the Democratic party that sat in the White House did not sign any of the above legislation if handed to him by Congress. That, in no way, shows support.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:33, topic:201188"]
That is faulty logic. It would mean his political death if any member of the Democratic party that sat in the White House did not sign any of the above legislation if handed to him by Congress. That, in no way, shows support.

[/quote]

I'm not saying that he would sign them out of fear of political death. He would sign them because he believes in them as programs. He is a committed leftist. He has expressed support for nearly every single item on you rlist.

He supported Blanche Lincoln.

I feel like no further evidence is needed.

[quote="cyberwolf001, post:32, topic:201188"]
A progressive America is worth fighting for!

On your choice of metaphor. In the end Steve ended up living with the Winslows, marrying Laura and in one of the last scenes Carl was more than happy to spend time with Steven.

In the same way the day could well come that people will be glad we fought this fight (and won!)

[/quote]

It's even more worth fighting against it to me as well.

[quote="bbarrick8383, post:36, topic:201188"]
It's even more worth fighting against it to me as well.

[/quote]

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