Proof of Mary's sin?


#1

Please help, I came across a new argument against Mary’s sinlessness I don’t know how to answer:

When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”), 24 and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: “a pair of doves or two young pigeons.” (Luke 2:23-24)

"'When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. (Lev. 12:6)

The Bible thus explains that Mary offered a sin offering - why would she do that if she didn’t have sin?


#2

There are three possibilities that can combat this:

  1. It was an act of humility. Jesus did the same thing. He was circumcised, yet circumcision was to enter into God’s covenant people. Did Jesus need circumcision? Of course not. He was perfectly aligned with His divine Father. Jesus goes with his family for sacrifice at the temple later. Again, Jesus was sinless, so why was this offering necessary? He Himself is THE offering to come. Mary simply did the same.

  2. Mary didn’t realize or have knowledge she was sinless.

  3. It was an act of safety. Can you imagine what would have happened if Mary had told the priests that a sacrifice was unneccesary since she had no sin? They would have accused her of blasphemy and stoned her to death!


#3

the gospel itself contains the answer, it was done in obedience to the Law


#4

It could also be an offering to cleanse her of her menstration, which is not a sin.


#5

The Scriptures tell us the answer: in obedience to the Law.

Why was Jesus baptized by John? It is not because he needed it. It was in obedience.


#6

Just another mindless attact on our Lady.
:mad:

The people who say these horrible things about Mary should spend more time worshiping her Son, and less time attacting His mother.


#7

**Only sinners call on the name of the Lord . . .

Luke 1:46-47:

And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior”**


#8

And Jesus never called on the name of the Father?

You’re stirring tab. You’ve been around here long enough to know that Mary was saved from sin at the moment of her conception is all.

She had a saviour, sure, but one who saved her from sin by preventing it rather than by letting her sin and then forgiving her like the rest of us poor schmucks.


#9

If only sinners call on the name of the Lord, what will we be doing in heaven when we are all perfected?

Those who sin call on the Lord for salvation, and those to whom He has already given salvation call on Him in acknowledgement & gratitude.


#10

The effects of the offering are part of Lev 12:5-7

If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.
6 " 'When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. 7 He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.

The reason for the offering was to comply with Lev 12:7, NOT Lev 12:6.

Christ had not yet abolished the law of cermonial cleanliness. Mary was thus required, under the law, to sacrifice to regain cerimonial cleanliness.

Note that being cerimonilly ‘unclean’, such as in menstration or after child birth, is NOT sin.

For Mary to NOT sacrifice in this way would have been sin, as it would have prevented her from going to the Temple.


#11

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Exactly!!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

In any case, the “sin offering” was not an admission of sin; it was, as had been pointed out , something that was done to fulfill the laws of ritual impurity. Judaism had (& has) a lot of these rules…As good Jews, Mary & Joseph would have obeyed all of them. Even this one…


#12

[quote=Zooey;2030311In any case, the “sin offering” was not an admission of sin; it was, as had been pointed out , something that was done to fulfill the laws of ritual impurity. Judaism had (& has) a lot of these rules…As good Jews, Mary & Joseph would have obeyed all of them. Even this one…
[/QUOTE]Also, this was necessary to fulfill the promise that the Holy Spirit made to Simeon. From the KJV: “Luk 2:25 **And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.**Luk 2:26 **And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. **Luk 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luk 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luk 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Luk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.”
[/quote]


#13

thanks brothers, you’ve been helpful!


#14

You can also note that there is not one passage in the Bible that Mary committed sin. We see that she has been obedient to God’s will, she said, “Be it done unto me according to your word.”

She even said to servants at Cana, “Do whatever He tells you.” Throughout Scripture Mary remain obedient and she was there at the foot of the Cross.


#15

fineca,

By that logic then Our Lord was a sinner, since he was baptized by John in the Jordan, right?

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him. 14 But John stayed him, saying: I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering, said to him: Suffer it to be so now. For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice. Then he suffered him.

16 And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him. 17 And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Of course Our Lord was not a sinner…


#16

THAT was a good answer!


#17

Well, it’s not really an argument. Was Jesus a sinner? He was baptized, prayed incessantly, did good works etc. etc. and we know he was sinless as well.

Mary, Joseph, and Jesus for that matter did everything that was required in scripture for a good loyal Jewish family to do. They had no need by reason of sin to do anything, but they did anyway as example for the Jewish faithful, and out of obedience and love for their religion.

Peace,

Steve


#18

I think about it this way…

Mary was simply obeying the law of God and the customs of the day. Because she offered a sin offering it does not mean that she was sinful.

Iowa Mike


#19

fineca,

why would you insult the Mother of Jesus, God the Son?


#20

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