Proofs of Catholicism


#1

As some of you may or may not know, I am a complete moron withnot even a fraction of the knowledge possessed by many on this forum. Now with that out of the way, I have a problem. A big one. I was, up until I saw the movie Gandhi, a staunch Catholic, I mean hardcore. Like death-to-Hans-Kueng hardcore. I thought my Religion was perfect, at least, the way I understood it to be. Then I saw Gandhi, and, well, everything was kind of up for grabs. Over time, I matured and softened. I started questioning all things, including my Religion. Then I found out that I was blatantly wong about what my Religion taught. So I looked into it, thinking that it was mere misunderstanding. I came out with just more disagreement. Here are some of the things I disagree with, in no particular order.

  1. Sex is alright even if conception is unlikely or impossible, as it is for bonding and enjoyment also.
  2. We can enjoy the material things of this world, i.e. wealth, beyond our essential needs and still go to Heaven.
  3. Monasticism and Marriage are equal (this is the one that really blows my mind.)
  4. A devout, self-indulgent Christian is superior to, oh, lets say, a devout, ascetic Hindu cough GANDHI cough.
  5. Self-defense (of just yourself, not anyone else) is morally acceptable.
  6. Not all people go to Heaven. Allow me to articulate, when I say get to Heaven, I mean eventually. For example, lets just say Hitler is in Hell for 1 billion years for every person he killed. That’s enough, I’d say. Let the punishment fit the crime, and anyway you look at it, eternal Hell is overkill, even for Hitler.

So, in this Holy Week, I ask you, are there proofs of our Christian faith? I want truth, but I don’t want to be blind either. I want to understand why it is truth.

God Bless


#2

I can see your reason for wanting to understand the truth of our faith. Our faith is rooted in the fact that there is a creator, our God, who loves us and wants us all to be with him for an eternity. But our eternal future has been in danger since Adam and Eve because Satan wants us to suffer in hell with him. Our God sent us his son, not as a wealthy ruler, but as a simple poor man. How could such an insignaficant poor man, born in a trough that animals eat out of make such a profound difference in this world? It is because he spoke the truth, unlike anyone else had and ever will again. He gave us a Church and promised the Holy Spirit would guide the Church in its doctrines.
Spend some time reading about the miracles of the Eucharist, the Divine Mercy and the saints. I heard it said once that if someone has faith then no further explanation is necessary, if he has no faith then no explanation is enough.


#3

, a staunch Catholic, I mean hardcore. Like death-to-Hans-Kueng hardcore. I thought my Religion was perfect, at least, the way I understood it to be. Then I saw Gandhi, and, well, everything was kind of up for grabs. Over time, I matured and softened. I started questioning all things, including my Religion. Then I found out that I was blatantly wong about what my Religion taught. So I looked into it, thinking that it was mere misunderstanding. I came out with just more disagreement. Here are some of the things I disagree with, in no particular order.

  1. Sex is alright even if conception is unlikely or impossible, as it is for bonding and enjoyment also.Is it? That is not what God told the first man and woman.

As for sex being “alright”. You will have a problem with the commandment not to commit adultery since it also includes fornication as explained in both Testaments.

  1. We can enjoy the material things of this world, i.e. wealth, beyond our essential needs and still go to Heaven.

In proper moderation, yes, but even Ghandi would disagree with you about this, and his lifestyle showed it.

  1. Monasticism and Marriage are equal (this is the one that really blows my mind

.)As vocations that people are called to I suppose so but celibacy was specifically espoused by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

  1. A devout, self-indulgent Christian is superior to, oh, lets say, a devout, ascetic Hindu cough GANDHI cough.

If you say so. :shrug:

  1. Self-defense (of just yourself, not anyone else) is morally acceptable.

Yeah? Then go ahead and swing at the next Black Belt you meet, regardless of his faith.

Oh and I suggest that you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church on this.

  1. Not all people go to Heaven. Allow me to articulate, when I say get to Heaven, I mean eventually. For example, lets just say Hitler is in Hell for 1 billion years for every person he killed. That’s enough, I’d say. Let the punishment fit the crime, and anyway you look at it, eternal Hell is overkill, even for Hitler.

Tell that to six million Jews and a great many Catholics and other innocents that he had murdered.

So, in this Holy Week, I ask you, are there proofs of our Christian faith? I want truth, but I don’t want to be blind either. I want to understand why it is truth.

I’d start with the fact that your personal insights and thinking as expressed so far do not even align with the natural law.

You essentially espouse a libertine system that is amoral and will not work.

Here’s a couple of ideas to help get you thinking.

  1. Read the Bible. I suggest the New Testament, beginning with Matthew. When you finish that then perhaps begin the Old Testament. If you are willing to consider non-Christian sources, you should at least give Christian ones a fair hearing.

  2. Take each of the items in your list and do some very diligent research on what the Church teaches in each case. I don’t think you have a clear and concise understanding of them so far.

  3. PM me with questions if you like and I’ll try to help you find answers.
    Pax tecum,


#4

[LIST]
*]

[size=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Sex is alright even if conception is unlikely or impossible, as it is for bonding and enjoyment also.

[/FONT][/size]Is this a problem?

[size=3][FONT=Times New Roman]2. We can enjoy the material things of this world, i.e. wealth, beyond our essential needs and still go to Heaven.

[/size][/FONT]How would you define “essential needs”? Is it an essential need to pay your $500/month mortgage or rent? Of course it is. Is it wealth beyond our essential needs or are mud houses and tents equally essential in the third world?

[size=3][FONT=Times New Roman]3. Monasticism and Marriage are equal (this is the one that really blows my mind

[/size].)[/FONT]Marriage is a higher calling. Marriage is a sacrament. Vows of poverty, chastity and obedience are not sacraments.

  1. A devout, self-indulgent Christian is superior to, oh, lets say, a devout, ascetic Hindu cough GANDHI cough.

God does not measure human beings by their religion.

[size=3][FONT=Times New Roman]5. Self-defense (of just yourself, not anyone else) is morally acceptable.

[/size][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman]The right to use force against an unjust aggressor. The moral premises on which justifiable self-defense is based are the fact that the possession of life includes the right to use the means necessary to protect one’s life, provided such means do not violate the rights of others. In the case of unjust aggression, the use of force and even a deathblow may be the only means of saving one’s life. The rights of others are not therby violated, for the assailant’s right to live is suspended during the unjust attack. Moreover, the attacker can easily protect his or her life by merely ceasing from the attack.[/FONT][/LIST][FONT=Times New Roman]Fr. John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary[/FONT]

[size=3][FONT=Times New Roman]6. Not all people go to Heaven. Allow me to articulate, when I say get to Heaven, I mean eventually. For example, lets just say Hitler is in Hell for 1 billion years for every person he killed. That’s enough, I’d say. Let the punishment fit the crime, and anyway you look at it, eternal Hell is overkill, even for Hitler.

[/size][/FONT]
Only God knows, and hell does not come from God, it comes from ones rejection of God. God doesn’t send anyone to hell. People send themselves.

If “Ghandi” shakes your “staunch Catholic” faith, what will movies like Priest, Dogma, Butcher Boy, 40 Days and 40 Nights, The Magdalene Sisters and Black Christmas do to it?

Please remember Ghandi sought independence from Britain, a non-Catholic country, he did not seek independence from Catholicism.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images%20(101-200)/154_MotherTeresaGandhi.jpg
Mother Theresa paying respects to Ghandi, a great man.


#5

quote from NOSTRA AETATE

Men expect from the various religions answers to the unsolved riddles of the human condition, which today, even as in former times, deeply stir the hearts of men: What is man? What is the meaning, the aim of our life? What is moral good, what sin? Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? Which is the road to true happiness? What are death, judgment and retribution after death? What, finally, is that ultimate inexpressible mystery which encompasses our existence: whence do we come, and where are we going?"…

…Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust.
NOSTRA AETATE


The Church rejoices in truth wherever it is found. That includes truths found any religion. Only a true Church can do that. That should affirm your faith, not shake it up.


#6

I found this article quite interesting - wcg.org/lit/bible/gospels/lukewealth.htm

It’s not a sin to own material things, but it’s how we use our money and wealth… and how we prioritize our lives… To me at least. Hope this helps :slight_smile:


closed #7

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