Proper vessels...a prayer answered!

My parish was using glasses for the blood and for the body a bowl that looked like you would pour cornflakes and milk in, or a crystal bowl that looked like something that belonged in a restaurant to put the after-dinner mints in.

Hallelujah! Our men’s group and KofC bought the parish a full set of gold vessels which are being fully employed.

Thought I would share this as a ray of good news among the catalogue of abuses we have to constantly hear about.

Scott

Great news.
Always make me happy to see the KofC helping out.

Woonsocket Council #113 sends out our best to our brothers.

If those nosey-pokes in the KofC keep enforcing orthodoxy, we’ll never get liturgical abuses…errrrrrr…I mean, liturgical options like glass cereal bowls approved by Rome.

Thankfully, we have enough priests who recognize neato options when they see them and aren’t afraid to be trailblazers, no matter what Rome says.

I love the new springtime…don’t you? :bounce:

My parish church uses the proper sacred vessels but after Mass, especially the weekend mass, I see either the Eucharistic ministers or parish staff members grabbing the sacred vessels and carrying them back to the sacristy, crowding theml in one arm, with the vessels upside down or on top of one another, as if they are waiters clearing a table in a restaurant.

I question not the handling of the sacred vessels that just carried the Body and Blood of Jesus , but also but also whether they should be washed washed with soap in the sacristy (for hygienic reasons). I know that the Purification is done right at the end of the Mass by the priest (there is enough information on this) but the actual washing later on with soap is something that is not often discussed.

Fr. Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University, writes the following:
the priest " purifies the paten or ciborium over the chalice then purifies the chalice… This is usually done by placing the paten over the chalice at an angle so that the tiny fragments fall into it. If necessary, this process may be helped by moving the particles with the corner of a folded purificator or with the thumb, which in turn is rubbed over the chalice to loosen any particles that may have adhered. If necessary, especially in hot and humid climes, the fingers may also be purified with water. "

"The ciborium may be purified by hand in the same manner. But because of the large number of small particles in this vessel, it is often necessary to purify it directly with water. In this case, water is placed in the ciborium, gently swished to absorb all the particles and this water is then poured directly into the chalice. Extra chalices are likewise purified with water. "

“The minister then consumes the water containing the particles and should not pour it into the sacrarium. The minister then dries the ciboria and the chalice or chalices with a purificator.”

"When this process is completed, and only then, may the sacred vessels be washed with other elements such as soap. This is usually unnecessary and should not be done on a daily basis except, perhaps, when many people partake of the same chalice. Excess washing can cause expensive damage to the metal parts of the chalice."
More in: zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=66066

From what Fr. McNamara writes above, it shows that washing by soap is optional. I would like to know more about this 2nd part, the cleaning after the purification. Is it true that the sink in the sacristy where the vessels are washed should have a plumbing system that goes directly to the ground and not through the sewer lines? Is there any kind of prayer or ceremony that the Church prescribes during this time of washing? What kind of soap can be used? Can anybody do this washing of the vessels in sink? ( especially if the deacon is gone or busy with other things after Mass)

Once I attended Mass at a parish where we attended a conference. After Mass, I went to the bathroom. I was shocked at what I witnesed – a Eucharistic minister was washing all the sacred vessels in the bathroom sink!

What is so sad is often the liturgical abuse happens just because people don’t know. There is not enough information on this.

In the love and joy of Jesus,
Teresa

Very impressed by the K of C. Does anyone know if this is a national project?

I live in a diocese where disobedience, although often minor but abuse nonetheless, is rampant, but also where a newly-installed bishop is trying to correct this problem. So when I contacted a priest friend of mine to ask him about good places to look for sacred vessels to bring my church’s practice into line, he started laughing because he’d just come from a diocesan synod meeting at which the bishop had adressed that very topic. He did so by basically telling the priests that he would give them the relevant documentation and they would be able to figure out what to do (translation: you know what you’re supposed to be using so fix this before I have to get medieval on you). I was pleased to hear that although I was ahead of the curve, the winds of change seem to be blowing in the diocese.

That’s wonderful news.

About 4-5 years ago we using cheap glass stemware and even cheaper glass candy dishes for the Mass. The “liturgy coordinator” harshly defended their use – more like a meal, etc.

She made the mistake of repeating her notion in the local secular newspaper. She was thoroughly lambasted by several letters-to-the-editor.

Within a week we had a second collection where we raised $7,500 for new vessels…

[quote=Fortiterinre]Very impressed by the K of C. Does anyone know if this is a national project?
[/quote]

The K of C (Knights of Columbus) has grown from several members in one council to more than 12,000 councils and 1.6 million members throughout the United States, Canada, the Philippines, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Panama, the Bahamas, the Virgin Islands, Guatemala, Guam and Saipan.

Projects are run from national, state or local councils.

Current national programs are:

Order Will Appeal Ruling on Pledge of Allegiance www.kofc.org/news/releases/detail.cfm?id=25626

Knights Committed to Katrina Relief for Long Haul www.kofc.org/news/releases/detail.cfm?id=25625

as well as continuing pro-life activities.

The above item sounds like a council activity. You would be suprised what gets accomplished even on the small scale.

Our council is currently looking into erecting a 10 commandment memorial at a busy intersection. (Church property :smiley: , nothing like teeing off the ACLU)

Oh yea before closing, If your not a Knight what are you waiting for? www.kofc.org/about/join/how.cfm :thumbsup:

God Bless
Beebs

I’m waiting for confirmation that I get to wear the cool hat and carry the sword.

My shrink tells me I shouldn’t be given sharp objects, but what does he know? :nope:

[quote=Scott Waddell]My parish was using glasses for the blood and for the body a bowl that looked like you would pour cornflakes and milk in, or a crystal bowl that looked like something that belonged in a restaurant to put the after-dinner mints in.

Hallelujah! Our men’s group and KofC bought the parish a full set of gold vessels which are being fully employed.

Thought I would share this as a ray of good news among the catalogue of abuses we have to constantly hear about.

Scott
[/quote]

Hallelujah - Hallelujah - For the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth - Hallelujah :thumbsup:

Thanks be to God!

[quote=Scott Waddell]My parish was using glasses for the blood and for the body a bowl that looked like you would pour cornflakes and milk in, or a crystal bowl that looked like something that belonged in a restaurant to put the after-dinner mints in.

Hallelujah! Our men’s group and KofC bought the parish a full set of gold vessels which are being fully employed.

Thought I would share this as a ray of good news among the catalogue of abuses we have to constantly hear about.

Scott
[/quote]

Um, what prayer did you say because we have a similar problem? Nothing like a chipped chalice is there? {grimace}

[quote=Scott Waddell]My parish was using glasses for the blood and for the body a bowl that looked like you would pour cornflakes and milk in, or a crystal bowl that looked like something that belonged in a restaurant to put the after-dinner mints in.

Hallelujah! Our men’s group and KofC bought the parish a full set of gold vessels which are being fully employed.

Thought I would share this as a ray of good news among the catalogue of abuses we have to constantly hear about.

Scott
[/quote]

First of all, I gree with you about the vessels you describe, they sound horrible, especially crystal which could break easily.

But why do the sacred vessels have to be gold? When I first moved here & joined my current parish the pastor was using what I thought was a very nice set of earthenware vessels which I could imagine having been used at the Last Supper. He wasn’t a “rebel” & I doubt that he was trying to make a statement of any kind – but I really don’t see why these vessels ought to be objectionable.

Now Fr. John has been transferred to a larger parish and apparently took those vessels with him (or they were retired by our new pastor) and gold vessels areback in use.

[quote=didymus]First of all, I gree with you about the vessels you describe, they sound horrible, especially crystal which could break easily.

But why do the sacred vessels have to be gold? When I first moved here & joined my current parish the pastor was using what I thought was a very nice set of earthenware vessels which I could imagine having been used at the Last Supper. He wasn’t a “rebel” & I doubt that he was trying to make a statement of any kind – but I really don’t see why these vessels ought to be objectionable.

Now Fr. John has been transferred to a larger parish and apparently took those vessels with him (or they were retired by our new pastor) and gold vessels areback in use.

[/quote]

Actually, I don’t think they have to be gold. But they can’t be of inferior material, even if it is based on the curious desire to emulate the Last Supper like a bunch of nerdy Civil War reenactors.

Scott

[quote=Mary1973]Um, what prayer did you say because we have a similar problem? Nothing like a chipped chalice is there? {grimace}
[/quote]

I just put it in my prayer intentions. Try your local KofC for help.

Scott

The main objections to non-metallic vessels is that they are breakable, absorbant, or lacking in honour to Our Lord’s Body. From the GIRM

  1. Vessels should be made from materials that are solid and that in the particular region are regarded as noble. The conference of bishops will be the judge in this matter. But preference is to be given to materials that do not break easily or become unusable.
  1. Chalices and other vessels that serve as receptacles for the
    blood of the Lord are to have a cup of nonabsorbent material. The
    base may be of any other solid and worthy material.
  1. Vessels that serve as receptacles for the eucharistic bread,
    such as a paten, ciborium, pyx, monstrance, etc., may be made of other materials that are prized in the region, for example, ebony or other hard woods, as long as they are suited to sacred use.
  1. Vessels made from metal should ordinarily be gilded on the
    inside if the metal is one that rusts; gilding is not necessary if
    the metal is more precious than gold and does not rust.

All of these rules are meant to ensure both honour to Our Lord’s body and protection from contamination or spillage. Glass is easily breakable and earthenware is often absorbant. Also despite the fondness for arty-crafty pottery these days it would be hard to describe the material “prized in the region” or are “noble in the region”. A lot of this type of sacred vessel became popular as a way of promoting the “family meal” type mass in the 70’s. We really do owe Our Lord’s Body and Blood the finest of homes however much we might like the folksy cups and plates.

I know I’m going to be getting off track somewhat with this question but I figured since we are already talking about purification of vessels I could also ask this question…Has anyone ever seen a priest put a full chalice ,that was used during mass, into the tabernacle. I ask this because I witnessed this at mass yesterday. Before the Consecration I noticed that the "Very new priest’ we have poured a large amount of wine into the chalices, there where not that many people in attendance, after Communion I saw the Eucharistic minister take both and pour them into one and bring them to the priest at the Altar, he then in turn took it to the Tabernacle and placed it in with the remaining hosts. I have never seen this before and just thought it was…odd for lack of a better word. Doesn’t the priest usually finish the sacred blood or am I mistaken. He also didn’t purify any of the vessels, just handed them off to the altar boy. I know that he was in ahurry to get back to our other church in town for the next mass that started shortly. Anyone have an answer for me, I just can’t get this out of my mind today.

[quote=maryj]I know I’m going to be getting off track somewhat with this question but I figured since we are already talking about purification of vessels I could also ask this question…Has anyone ever seen a priest put a full chalice ,that was used during mass, into the tabernacle. I ask this because I witnessed this at mass yesterday. Before the Consecration I noticed that the "Very new priest’ we have poured a large amount of wine into the chalices, there where not that many people in attendance, after Communion I saw the Eucharistic minister take both and pour them into one and bring them to the priest at the Altar, he then in turn took it to the Tabernacle and placed it in with the remaining hosts. I have never seen this before and just thought it was…odd for lack of a better word. Doesn’t the priest usually finish the sacred blood or am I mistaken. He also didn’t purify any of the vessels, just handed them off to the altar boy. I know that he was in ahurry to get back to our other church in town for the next mass that started shortly. Anyone have an answer for me, I just can’t get this out of my mind today.
[/quote]

“Excess” Precious Blood must be consumed at the end of Holy Communion before the Mass continues.

Placing an open chalice of the Precious Blood in the tabernacle because too much was confected is a hardcore liturgical abuse. A small amount of the Precious Blood may indeed be reserved in the tabernacle until the end of the Mass in a special sealed container, where it is then taken to home/hospital bound communicants who cannot consume even a small bit of the Host.

As far as purifying the vessels, that can be done directly following the Mass.

May I ask what you mean by Hardcore liturgical abuse and How or where you learned this. Just making sure!!

[quote=Chalice]“Excess” Precious Blood must be consumed at the end of Holy Communion before the Mass continues.

Placing an open chalice of the Precious Blood in the tabernacle because too much was confected is a hardcore liturgical abuse. A small amount of the Precious Blood may indeed be reserved in the tabernacle until the end of the Mass in a special sealed container, where it is then taken to home/hospital bound communicants who cannot consume even a small bit of the Host.

As far as purifying the vessels, that can be done directly following the Mass.
[/quote]

[quote=maryj]May I ask what you mean by Hardcore liturgical abuse and How or where you learned this. Just making sure!!
[/quote]

From

usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter4.shtml

The Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion Under Both Kinds in the Diocese of the United States states the Precious Blood may never be reserved, except for giving Communion to someone who is sick.” (no.54) When this is done “the Blood of the Lord is kept in a properly covered vessel and is placed in the tabernacle after Communion.” (no.54) The Norms go on to say that “if some of the Precious Blood remains after the sick person has received Communion, it should be consumed by the minister, who should also see to it that the vessel is properly purified.”

The approved procedure for dealing with the Precious Blood which remains after a eucharistic celebration is addressed in no.52 of the Norms. The consecrated wine is never to be poured into the ground or into the sacrarium. Rather, it is to be consumed by the ministers after Communion is completed."

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