Prophet Mohammad PBUH: the angels are created from light

I found this in one of the forums and I would like to share it with you.

Originally Posted by elwill:

i posted this one within another thread , but unfortunatly no responses back to me , and i really hope to hear some refutations or objections about it or any kind of reaction about it

one of the verses are talking about angels

32-5 (Allah) Rules the cosmic affair** from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.**

the verse is talking about the angels whom carry out these orders from heavens to the earth .

in the time of mohammed (pbuh) people measured the distances neither in kilometers nor in miles but rather by how much time they needed to walk.

For example, a village two days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for two days; ten days away meant a distance equivalent to walking for ten days… However in this verse the Quran specifies 1000 years of what they counted (not what they walked). Those people back then followed the lunar calendar and counted 12 lunar months each year. These months are related to the moon and not related to the sun. Hence in 1 day the angels will travel a distance of 1000 years of what they counted (the moon). Since this verse is referring to distance, then God is saying that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 12000 lunar orbits.

**Outside gravitational fields this speed turned out to be the known speed of light , which means that the speed of the angles equal the speed of the light **

(mslems believe that angels are low density creatures, and that God created them originally from light )

yet , i didn’t proof anything , be patient :cool:

there is another verse in the quran informes us different informations about traveling of angles from earth to heaven which say

70-4 The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.

Here angels will experience 1 day while humans will measure it as 50,000 years (time vs. time and not time vs. distance as the previous lunar verse)

However, according to the theory of special relativity, given this time difference (time dilation), we can calculate the speed at which that object traveled.

We can verify if those angels really accelerate up to the speed of light, as claimed by Moslems, on the first verse

Where ∆to is the time measured for a mover by a mover;

∆t is the time measured for a mover by a stationary frame; v is the velocity of the mover relative to the stationary observer)

∆to is the time experienced by angels (1 day).

∆t is the time as measured by humans (50,000 lunar years x12 lunar months/lunar year x 27.321661 days/lunar month).

v is the velocity of angels in this case (which we intend to calculate and then compare to the known speed of light).

c is the known speed of light 2997924.48 km/s, the speed of light in vacuum

From the above equation we can solve for the unknown velocity:

So let’s insert the Moslem claims and see if their angels really accelerate up to the speed of light or not. Insert dates from this verse The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years into the formula

v = 299792.4579999994 km / s ( and this is the speed of light )

THIS IS FALSE…

no matter what number you put under the squared ( ) it would go to infinity … therefore gives you the number 1 which in the end gives you C (the speed of light)


so if you try this (60000 X 12 X 27.32) it will give you the same answer …

this was taken from :speed-light.info/

but seriously ,big investments from this website on something wrong :slight_smile:

Sorry to disappoint you …I say the Mods should delete this thread

Moslems seem to want to close any thread here that disagrees with what they want to hear.

Similar tactics are used throughout the world.

Indeed. The fact that they’re dividing by such a large number makes any variations in it (even to huge variations) insanely tiny. After completed 1-tiny number = practically 1. As you know, the sqrt(0.999’s…) = 0.9999’s… (even closer to 1). this is because the square root of a number less than 1 = a number even closer to 1.
When they multiply this by the speed of light, they get a number very close to the speed of light as expected, but not the speed of light. (This is because any number * ~1 = ~ the same number.)

Basically, this is like one of those maths tricks, except this one is really obvious.

I’m interested though, where did they get their number for c = 2997924.48 from?
That’s not right at all…

Yet this gets even stupider. If God created angels from light, angels should travel at the speed of light. Yet according to this angels don’t travel at the speed of light at all. Are they trying to contradict the Koran???!

I think there were a couple typos. The author simply put the decimal in the wrong spot the first time s/he listed the speed of light. Correcting this mistake would give 299792.448 km/s So, yeah the corrected figure is still off by 1 one hundredth. However, the author did get correct number the second time around (at the bottom of the quote.)

math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/measure_c.html

299,792.458 km/s = speed of light

Hi Hadi, thank you for your comment.

We know that there is no errors in the Noble Quran, it would be only in our misunderstanding for Its verses.

Unlike the bible which is “Apocrypha” as we know and its verses contradict with each other, not only with the real world.
If it was the original bible which is indeed the Word of God as the Quran, there wouldn’t be any contradictions at all.

Brother elwill wrote this thread and said:

thank you very much dear Dale_M,

May Allah reward you a good reward.

I have just recently been hearing what the koran says and have already found some contradictions. From what I understand, the koran claims that:

  1. The Virgin birth is actually true, i.e. mary gave birth not from a man but from the Holy Spirit.

(let me know if I am saying something that the koran does not actually teach)

  1. The koran also says that Jesus was not the Son of God… okay but …

if 1 is true, then the koran is pretending that Jesus did not come from Heaven.

That seems to contradict to me big time

Yes Jesus is not the son of God, he is one of the creatures.

When God wanted to create a human being having no father only mother, God said to that order be and it was.

The nature doesn’t create but God,
He said be, so see what happenned

Jesus peace be upon him was
this is a sign for men and jinn

Also, the fire was cold and peace
when Abraham was thrown therein

  1. And they say: Allâh has begotten a son.
    Glory be to Him (Exalted be He above that). Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth, and all surrender with obedience (in worship) to Him.

  2. The Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it : “Be!” - and it is.

The Koran contradicts previous scriptures meaning its the word of man…Mohammed to be exact. Yes he didn´t write it because he didn`t know how, but he dictated it.

Muslim: Muhammad’s advent was predicted in the Holy Bible.

CHRISTIAN: Muhammad’s teaching contradicts key, essential biblical doctrines.

Muslim: The Holy Bible has been corrupted.

CHRISTIAN: How do you know this?

Muslim: Because, as you yourself indicated, there are parts of the Bible which contradict the message God gave to Muhammad.

CHRISTIAN: How do you know that it wasn’t Muhammad’s message that was corrupt instead of the Holy Bible?

Muslim: Muhammad was a true prophet of God and the Almighty Allah promised to protect the message given to him.

CHRISTIAN: How do you know that Muhammad was a true prophet of God?

Muslim: One of the reasons that I know this to be true is that the Holy Bible itself predicted Muhammad’s coming.

CHRISTIAN: In other words, you use the Holy Bible to prove that Muhammad was a true prophet and then use Muhammad to prove that the Holy Bible has been corrupted?

Muslim: Err, ahh, yes!?

CHRISTIAN: How do you know that those passages predicting Muhammad remained intact?

Muslim: I know this because the Quran tells me that there are prophecies of Muhammad in the Bible.

CHRISTIAN: So you are saying that Allah protected those passages from being corrupted?

Muslim: Yes, alhamdulullah!

CHRISTIAN: So if God could protect those passages, why didn’t he simply protect all of it?

Muslim: Err, ahh, well Allah chose not to protect all of it.

CHRISTIAN: Well, why not?

Muslim: Allahu-alim “God knows”- in other words there is no good answer!

CHRISTIAN: And what makes you think that God didn’t protect the entire Bible?

Muslim: Because it contradicts Islam.

CHRISTIAN: And what makes you certain that Islam is true?

Muslim: I know it is true since it is the revelation Allah gave to his messenger.

CHRISTIAN: And how do you know he was a true messenger?

Muslim: Because the Bible itself predicted his coming!

Ain’t it the truth! :rotfl:And round and round the mulberry bush we go! Whee!

Vickie :smiley:

In all honesty, isn’t this what we see and experience here on CAF?

My answer is YUP!

well I must say, at the very least, the koran portrays Jesus as the most unique person in all of History.

But even more than this, if the koran actually says that Jesus was born not from a human father, but from God… Hmm, doesn’t that make him the Son of God?

And furthermore, He is the only Son of God, since only Jesus was born not from a human father, but from the Holy Spirit (which is God). No one else on earth was born from the Holy Spirit, only Jesus. If the Holy Spirit is God then Jesus’ father is God!

The Koran proves this! yet, it later contradicts itself, which is the problem.

It’s almost like there could have been some revelations of truth accepted (like Jesus having no father but God) and yet, then some false messages like “Jesus is not the son of God.”

very contradictory!

Please tell your christians these facts.
We are not as the “chosen people” who critisized him and his mother 1 month ago in Israel.

We are the only religion in this world that respect Jesus and his mother and consider him to be the true masseah who will return soon.

We believe in Jesus as he is, we don’t raise him up to the level of divinity nor we lower him as the jews do so.

The Quran doesn’t say what you claimed.
The Quran says that God created Jesus, not begot him.

No, it makes him the son of Mary, not the son of God.

You are now falling in the confusion of your religion.

According to your assumption, there are 2 gods, the holy spirit and jesus.

There is no meaning for trinity:
god the father
god the holy spirit "the father"
god the son

Yup, we have to deal with the circular reasoning constantly and never get anywhere! :hypno:

Vickie :smiley:

**There was another angle to all that. The angels, even if they travel at the speed of light, cannot traverse the osmos in billion of years.

The meaning in the Quran of the earth having been created in six days and each day of our being equal to 1000 years, nd anothe rmention that each day is equal to 50,000 years, when multiplied together comes to round about the age of the earth.

I have forgotten the exact method of calculation. But it would be around few billion ( 4 or 14 billion) years. Now I am trying to calculate 2x6x365x1000x50,000 **comes to about =
2x 109,500,000,000 years.=219,000,000,000 years.

That would be the estimate of the age of the earth.

thanks for discussing this with me btw. :slight_smile:

let me ask you a question to have some more clarity about this.

please tell me why Jesus had no human father. Is there any reason why the Koran teaches this?

Of course I agree that Jesus had no human father, but I wonder why the Koran teaches this.

Logically, we christians believe that Jesus’ father is God. Why do muslims not hold this belief as well?

The response that Muslim posters have given me regarding this point is that the fact that Jesus has no earthly father is no big deal - each prophet was given certain ‘gifts’ or ‘powers’ i.e. healing sick etc. This was just something given to Jesus and has no other significance. :shrug: :frowning:

Originally Posted by a slave of God
Please tell your christians these facts.
We are not as the “chosen people” who critisized him and his mother 1 month ago in Israel.

We are the only religion in this world that respect Jesus and his mother and consider him to be the true masseah who will return soon.

We believe in Jesus as he is, we don’t raise him up to the level of divinity nor we lower him as the jews do so.

The Quran doesn’t say what you claimed.
The Quran says that God created Jesus, not begot him.

No, it makes him the son of Mary, not the son of God.

You are now falling in the confusion of your religion.

According to your assumption, there are 2 gods, the holy spirit and jesus.

There is no meaning for trinity:
god the father
god the holy spirit "the father"
god the son

That was a good reply by the Salve of God (Abd Allah)

**Dear Flame of Christ, please note that Quran does not teach that Jesus had no human father. That may be an implied meaning (idea). But nowhere did the Quran say that Jesus had no father. The prophet also never said such a thing. So we do not believe that Jesus had no human father.

If we do that then we will be misguided in the same way as the christians who took wrong meaning (derived meanings) of things and went far astray. We need not say that Jesus had a father. But at the same time we are not obliged to believe that Jesus had no father.

Your question is a double statement. First we should confirm that Jesus had no father. Then we can proceed with other questions on that subject about why he had no father… Quran does not say that Jesus had no father. Quran tells about the marriage (Look after=Kifaalat) of Mary and her virginity, pious life.

Quran tells about the hopelessness of Mary regarding marriage. Then it goes to tell us that she was informed about a high ranking son who would be a messenger to the children of Israel. That news was given to Mary ( care of an angel) long before she had any idea or hope of her marriage.

Then God arranged her marriage and selected the best man (Joseph) as her husband. In other words God arranged her marriage and provided all the necessities. That is all according to the Quran. I do not know any other lady whose marriage was arranged (husband selected) by God.

Quran tells us that Jesus was son of Mary (Maryam). He is not mentioned as son of God. So we do not say that Jesus is son of God.

Why Jesus is mentioned as son of Mary?

The reason is that Joseph was an old man (much older than Mary) and he probably died very soon after marriage to Mary. He was not a well known high ranking spiritual person. ONly Mary was high ranking and blessed person. God talked to Mary, never talked to Joseph. The one who gets the message from God has the high rank. Mary had that rank and a pure excellent background as a servant of God in the Temple for many years, under the care of zakariyya a.s.

The men of God are related to the high ranking spiritual persons, not to any other person. So even if Joseph was the earthly known father of Jesus, Jesus is not mentioned as the son of Jospeh. Jesus is mentioned as the son of Mary.

More later… if required.**

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