Protestanism: a great heresy


#1

When u think about Protestanism and other Religions you have to say that the truths of there religions are correct in so far as they agree with Catholisicm…Protestants have no truth apart form the Catholic church…i find it remarkable that just because the new catechism uses “nice” language towards Protestanism that many Catholics, including those on this forum, want to turn a blind eye to Protestanism as a heresy… Protestanism has led many souls away from Christ and needs to be destroyed… Outside the Church there is no salvation absolutely applys to Protestants… I also would like to remind u that someone has the morla obligation to seek out the truth…simply because a particular Protestant does not ““see”” that the Catholic church is the true Church doesnt mean he is invincibly ignorant…he may be culpible because he may shut his heart down and not want to see the truth… pat madrid, when he debated james white on sola scriptura, told the audience that they run the risk of “goin to hell” because they are not Catholics… pat madrid is one of the finest apologists today and i think we should learn form this example and remind protestants that they may end up in hell for rejecting Christ’s truths…


#2

[quote=marineboy]When u think about Protestanism and other Religions you have to say that the truths of there religions are correct in so far as they agree with Catholisicm…Protestants have no truth apart form the Catholic church…i find it remarkable that just because the new catechism uses “nice” language towards Protestanism that many Catholics, including those on this forum, want to turn a blind eye to Protestanism as a heresy… Protestanism has led many souls away from Christ and needs to be destroyed… Outside the Church there is no salvation absolutely applys to Protestants… I also would like to remind u that someone has the morla obligation to seek out the truth…simply because a particular Protestant does not ““see”” that the Catholic church is the true Church doesnt mean he is invincibly ignorant…he may be culpible because he may shut his heart down and not want to see the truth… pat madrid, when he debated james white on sola scriptura, told the audience that they run the risk of “goin to hell” because they are not Catholics… pat madrid is one of the finest apologists today and i think we should learn form this example and remind protestants that they may end up in hell for rejecting Christ’s truths…
[/quote]

Is there any place on the web that I can read or hear that debate?

-ignorant


#3

Belonging to ANY particular Church does not guarantee your salvation. There are many fellow Catholics who, unfortunately, are destined for hell. I believe we need to follow the official teachings of the Catholic Church as found in Canon Law, encyclicals, the CCC, and teachings of the magisterium. Current teachings appear to differ from your opinion.


#4

[quote=marineboy]When u think about Protestanism and other Religions you have to say that the truths of there religions are correct in so far as they agree with Catholisicm…Protestants have no truth apart form the Catholic church…i find it remarkable that just because the new catechism uses “nice” language towards Protestanism that many Catholics, including those on this forum, want to turn a blind eye to Protestanism as a heresy… Protestanism has led many souls away from Christ and needs to be destroyed… Outside the Church there is no salvation absolutely applys to Protestants… I also would like to remind u that someone has the morla obligation to seek out the truth…simply because a particular Protestant does not ““see”” that the Catholic church is the true Church doesnt mean he is invincibly ignorant…he may be culpible because he may shut his heart down and not want to see the truth… pat madrid, when he debated james white on sola scriptura, told the audience that they run the risk of “goin to hell” because they are not Catholics… pat madrid is one of the finest apologists today and i think we should learn form this example and remind protestants that they may end up in hell for rejecting Christ’s truths…
[/quote]

Okay, once again you are being unCatholic we are Christians and you are being mean and vile. Jesus brought me to the Catholic Church and if someone who acted like you tried to approach me and convert me I would have run the other way. You sound like The Church of Christ protestant denomination I grew up with.Why don’t you ask the converts how they got converted?How do you feel when anti-catholics come to this forum spouting off hatred?Mother Theresa didn’t treat anyone this way, do you know why?Because Christ calls us to be the light of the world,and there is nothing but darkness in your thread.I am going to pray for you and please lighten up,you let Jesus do his job and get some humility about you:tsktsk:


#5

Marineboy,

I 'm on the same ship you are!

I have **NEVER meet one Protestant who would not argue against the EUCHARIST. **
NOT ONE!


They give you every reason why it [size=6]is not[/size] the body and blood of Jesus!

They are the MANY in John 6:66!

[left]Peace, Joy, Love, Obedience,[/left]
[left]John[/left]
[left] [/left]
[left]PS: John 3:16, John 6:54, John 6:66[/left]
[left] [/left]


#6

i am not saying Catholics are assured salvation…but one has to be in the Catholic church to be saved–if one is invincibly ignorant of the one true Church then they cna be saved, but only through the catholic church… Protestanism saves noone only Christ’s truth saves and His truth is in the Catholic church… why are u people willing to let the heresy of protestanism go by, but not willing to let mormonism, Jehova’s witness’, etc etc–these are heresies Protestanism is a heresy… Yes Protestants have valid Baptism, but they believe things that are contrary to Christ’s truth…they call Christ’s Mother a sinner just to name one —and deny her perpetual virginity to name another…i hope God has mercy on their poor souls for believing lies about His Blessed Mother–


#7

[quote=john654]Marineboy,
I 'm on the same ship you are!
I have NEVER meet one Protestant who would not argue against the EUCHARIST.
NOT ONE!
They give you every reason why it is not the body and blood of Jesus!
They are the MANY in John 6:66!
Peace, Joy, Love, Obedience,
John
PS: John 3:16, John 6:54, John 6:66

[/quote]

I suppose you haven’t sampled a sufficiently large number of Protestants. My own family and I are members of a predominantly Black Baptist Chuch. For quite some time I have been uncomfortable with our new minister saying “symbolic” during communion services. Because I thought it was offensive to Catholics and Lutherans. And besides that, it is offensive to me that personal theological views (opinions) should be pronounced during our Baptist Holy Communion – because our Holy Communion was “open” to all who name Christ Lord. So it was theortetically somewhat inter-denominational.

I am convinced that there are or were other members of my Baptist Church who did not view Holy Communion as strictly symbolic.

If somebody is sola scriptura, how do they come to think symbolic? Their argument is that it is unreasonable and not realistic. If we required every doctrine to be reasonable, realistic and obey the laws of science as we understand them – then Jesus didn’t rise from the dead and all the other miracles fall down too. And so, arguments for “symbolic” don’t make sense to me. And I did a lot of other thinking that similarly resulted in my conclusion to be in RCIA and think Catholic.

To make a long story shorter, I now hold to the Catholic views and I am in RCIA. It only took me a few nights of praying a decade of “Hail Marys” each night to start to see what the Bible really says about Mary.

I visited the Methodist Church of my youth again last summer (usually about once a year). They had holy communion and a prayer of consecration – which surprised me. I know that this anomoly is not a norm of Methodism. But my home town has so many Catholics and Catholic Churches (including Orthodox, Eastern, Russian, etc.).

Some of us Protestants are only ignorant. I suppose some don’t know what they are protesting. And much of what Luther complained about in the Catholic Church has been corrected. I think Luther would be shocked and greatly sorrowful to see how much Protestants have otherwise departed from even his theology.


#8

[quote=marineboy]i am not saying Catholics are assured salvation…but one has to be in the Catholic church to be saved–if one is invincibly ignorant of the one true Church then they cna be saved, but only through the catholic church… Protestanism saves noone only Christ’s truth saves and His truth is in the Catholic church… why are u people willing to let the heresy of protestanism go by, but not willing to let mormonism, Jehova’s witness’, etc etc–these are heresies Protestanism is a heresy… Yes Protestants have valid Baptism, but they believe things that are contrary to Christ’s truth…they call Christ’s Mother a sinner just to name one —and deny her perpetual virginity to name another…i hope God has mercy on their poor souls for believing lies about His Blessed Mother–
[/quote]

Marineboy,The only thing I am saying is if you approach protestants in the manner that you start your threads with they will NOT listen to anything you have to say.They have been lied to about our Church for generations,and to come at them in an attack stance is to say the least counter productive.The Eucharist is central to the Christian Faith,but nobody outside our Church will listen to you with that approach.I grew up protestant and if you would like to know what they have been taught and excepted as the gospel truth pm me.You have got to be kinder in your approach. God Bless:)


#9

Lisa is right Marineboy. Some folks may be fairly hardheaded, but whackin’ 'em w/a 2X4 is not the way Jesus showed His love for people.

I CAN however understand how you get so forceful about it. I get bent outta shape sometimes when they won’t listen. Especially when they initiate the discussion by asking a question and then try to attack my answer. It’s happened to me many times, so now I listen carefully and answer slowly so I can see if they’re really honest about asking or if they’re just out “gunslingin” (my term for the way some people go out looking for someone to “witness” to).

Stll, I speak the truth in love and if they can’t handle it I just walk away. I have won some souls to the faith. Most Prots are almost terrified when they encounter a Catholic who has a salvation testimony and will invite them to come into full union w/the one true church. :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s nothing more than a Catholic who WAS a Prot for 34 years using their own tactic to present the truth. :wink:


#10

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]Marineboy,The only thing I am saying is if you approach protestants in the manner that you start your threads with they will NOT listen to anything you have to say.They have been lied to about our Church for generations,and to come at them in an attack stance is to say the least counter productive.The Eucharist is central to the Christian Faith,but nobody outside our Church will listen to you with that approach.I grew up protestant and if you would like to know what they have been taught and excepted as the gospel truth pm me.You have got to be kinder in your approach. God Bless:)
[/quote]

I agree. Waving your fists at their faces will certainly not gain you their respect and trust, or even their agreement. A calmer, more reasoned approach would be far more practical with regards our Protestant friends.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#11

i’d like to ask this, marineboy - what good do you feel your position, and posts, do?

do you remember our greatest commandments? we are to love God with all our hearts, minds, souls, and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves. even if protestants are our enemies (which the church tell us they are NOT, but our estranged brothers), we are commanded by our Lord to love and bless them, not to condemn them.

if we, the catholic church, have all of the truth, then that is all the more reason for our humility, patience, and loving outreach to our distant brothers. it ISN’T a reason for us to proudly announce that we’re right and they’re wrong and they can all go to hell.

i ask you to step outside of yourself, and look at how your posts are perceived by protestants who might be reading, or by converts who, as has been mentioned, would not have become catholic with your approach, or simply by those of us who rankle at rudeness.

the peace of Christ be with you,
jeff


#12

I dont think you guys are grasping what Marineboy is trying to get across (i may be quite wrong of course).
but i wouldnt say he is being vile or hateful, he’s saying it like it is.
I do understand how his very strait forward message can seem rough around the edges though.

But, in defence of Marineboy, he is absolutely correct. While i agree that many catholics will be damned (in fact according to many saints very few will be saved) one can be assured that outside the faith salvation is near impossible, here is where invincibly ignorant comes to play. but in our “you cant judge me!” society this extremly rare exception has been made the rule.

I think the point that Marineboy is trying to make, is that we must understand the direness of the situation. rather than play pattycake with those in grave error, we must pray and do much penance for those not in union with holy mother church.(including those who claim to be catholic)

we must understand that if we truly love those outside the church, we must do everything in our power to help them this is a life and death situation for us all.
I must say that i agree with Marineboy, this complacency(sp?)
is growing weary.

we must also understand that worrying so much about how everyone feels is not always a good thing. We want to be attractive to protestants, so what do we do…we surpress parts of our faith (truth) that may seem offensive. Blessed Mother, saints, doctrine(no salavtion outside the church), etc etc.
NO ONE!!! converts through reason!!! But only though the grace of Almighty God!!. We must be upfront and vocal about our beliefs, and through our prayer and penance heretics will be converted.


#13

[quote=delorean_boy]I dont think you guys are grasping what Marineboy is trying to get across (i may be quite wrong of course).
but i wouldnt say he is being vile or hateful, he’s saying it like it is.
I do understand how his very strait forward message can seem rough around the edges though.

But, in defence of Marineboy, he is absolutely correct. While i agree that many catholics will be damned (in fact according to many saints very few will be saved) one can be assured that outside the faith salvation is near impossible, here is where invincibly ignorant comes to play. but in our “you cant judge me!” society this extremly rare exception has been made the rule.

I think the point that Marineboy is trying to make, is that we must understand the direness of the situation. rather than play pattycake with those in grave error, we must pray and do much penance for those not in union with holy mother church.(including those who claim to be catholic)

we must understand that if we truly love those outside the church, we must do everything in our power to help them this is a life and death situation for us all.
I must say that i agree with Marineboy, this complacency(sp?)
is growing weary.

we must also understand that worrying so much about how everyone feels is not always a good thing. We want to be attractive to protestants, so what do we do…we surpress parts of our faith (truth) that may seem offensive. Blessed Mother, saints, doctrine(no salavtion outside the church), etc etc.
NO ONE!!! converts through reason!!! But only though the grace of Almighty God!!. We must be upfront and vocal about our beliefs, and through our prayer and penance heretics will be converted.
[/quote]

No one is being complacent! We share about the Catholic Faith but we don’t chase them away with meanness.How do you feel when non-catholics come to the forum and start accussing and condemning us to hell?Does it encourage a dialog?No, it gives a sense of dread and irritation.And if you believe so strongly what you said in your post, you certainly wouldn’t want to chase them away.God Bless


#14

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]No one is being complacent! We share about the Catholic Faith but we don’t chase them away with meanness.How do you feel when non-catholics come to the forum and start accussing and condemning us to hell?Does it encourage a dialog?No, it gives a sense of dread and irritation.And if you believe so strongly what you said in your post, you certainly wouldn’t want to chase them away.God Bless
[/quote]

WOW! Im not saying chase them away! BUT we cannot compromise the truth to make catholicism look more appealing to non catholics. sheesh
And im not condemning anyone to hell, all im saying is that Marineboy is correct in his statements. Im sorry for being so mean


#15

[quote=marineboy]When u think about Protestanism and other Religions you have to say that the truths of there religions are correct in so far as they agree with Catholisicm…Protestants have no truth apart form the Catholic church…i find it remarkable that just because the new catechism uses “nice” language towards Protestanism that many Catholics, including those on this forum, want to turn a blind eye to Protestanism as a heresy… Protestanism has led many souls away from Christ and needs to be destroyed… Outside the Church there is no salvation absolutely applys to Protestants… I also would like to remind u that someone has the morla obligation to seek out the truth…simply because a particular Protestant does not ““see”” that the Catholic church is the true Church doesnt mean he is invincibly ignorant…he may be culpible because he may shut his heart down and not want to see the truth… pat madrid, when he debated james white on sola scriptura, told the audience that they run the risk of “goin to hell” because they are not Catholics… pat madrid is one of the finest apologists today and i think we should learn form this example and remind protestants that they may end up in hell for rejecting Christ’s truths…
[/quote]

Marineboy, I sincerely hope no protestant is ever unfortunate enough to approach you for information on our Catholic faith while you hold your triumphalist sneering attitude.

Your right, Catholicism does have the fullness of faith. However we present this with an attitude of humility and an appreciation of how the reformation came about.

Take a good look at your attitude. And start listening to the Church. A good place would be the Catechism - A sure norm for teaching the faith - Pope John Paul II


#16

Protestants are in ‘a certain, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church’ (see below)

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324


#17

[quote=marineboy] Outside the Church there is no salvation absolutely applys to Protestants…
[/quote]

Yes, it applies to every human. But not in the way you think.

The teaching (EENS) has never changed, some people at various times have decided to give it their own personal slant and some indeed, such as Fr Feeney have had to be disciplined by the Church for it.

‘And so it is with the theological slogan, extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Latin for “outside the Church, no salvation”). This is a doctrine of the Catholic Church, one that’s found in every age of Catholic history, and it’s held to by the Church’s best and most influential minds. Understood properly, its dogmatic truth is beyond question. The problem arises, however, when this slogan is given a life of its own. And so it was in the 1940s with Fr. Leonard Feeney.’

envoymagazine.com/backis…coverstory.html


#18

My posts above are from the CCC.

POSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
FIDEI DEPOSITUM

ON THE PUBLICATION OF THE

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

PREPARED FOLLOWING THE SECOND VATICAN ECUMENICAL COUNCIL

JOHN PAUL, BISHOP
SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD
FOR EVERLASTING MEMORY

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pt 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.

scborromeo.org/ccc/aposcons.htm


#19

CCC - A sure norm for teaching the faith JPII

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
(My Bold)

To take the example of EENS, (no salvation outside the Church) the CCC is quite clear

CCC 847 - This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation

CCC 838 - The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."[322] Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”[323]


#20

[quote=marineboy]When u think about Protestanism and other Religions you have to say that the truths of there religions are correct in so far as they agree with Catholisicm…Protestants have no truth apart form the Catholic church
[/quote]

True, it’s ironic if there hadn’t been Catholics then there couldn’t have been Protestants, because the faith that Protestants have, they got from the Catholic Church,--------- only a watered down version.


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