Protestant converts: How did you deal with the Church's Marian doctrines?


And what history am I supposedly rewriting to suit my sensibilities?


We can dispense with disparaging the status of the Queen Mothers of ancient Judea. I am not contending their status. The records we have show them to be held in high esteem and taking part in leadership decisions.
I do contend though, and I’ve said as much in my earlier posts, that you cannot compare in direct correlation between Jesus and Jedea’s Kings. The whole shocking to the Jews point of not all of them accepting Jesus as their King was because he did not fall into their conception of what a King would be.


You continuously mistake Jesus as merely a common man born of a unique situation. He was not. No matter what you or others may wish were “normal” of his humanity the reality shouts out his uniqueness. Jesus was not the Son of David simply through tracing his lineage back through to him. His lingeage may have been traceable from Mary to David and thus by implication from Jesus to David however Jesus’s miraculous conception makes his case unique in all of creation. See Matthew 22:41-46 or Mark 12:35-37 or Luke 20:41-44, whichever you prefer. Jesus is hinting to us his unique Character and construct. Didn’t I cover this position before? No one has addressed my post covering this. Simply ignoring it and going on as if the assertions were never made and thus need not be addressed does nothing for progressing towards the truth. See my posts #'s 109, 113, 124, 137, 138, and especially 142 for instance.


Hellow thursday63, I hope all is well with you. I covered my opinions on kecharitomene in another thread concerning Mary and her immaculate state of being. I’ll try and find it for you so you can read over it and see what you think. No one meaningfully got back to me on the matter in the thread. Since they continued commenting on other things I said I can only assume they had no refutations to get back to me with.
God bless.


Lord give me site to see the truth. My good scholar, I could care less what your assertions are unless they can be reasonably defended as scriptue declares us to do. I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again for you, these forums are mainly for apologetics of your faith, I am not Catholic but am open to becoming one. Simply telling me that Catholicism is the True Church established by Christ to alone carry authoritative dogma and teach the same as if by merely making this statement it makes it true means little to me. Concerning suppressed issues not being of Christ I would only ask you how you can fathom the inneffable ways of God? Truth will out inspite of suppression, in our modern age it has become harder for any one entity to keep truth suppressed. It is a matter of record that the Catholic Church for instance attempted to suppress some records concerning the sexual scandals it is embroiled in. Would you say that because unspeakable evils are happening in our own lifetimes, let alone others, that Satan is beating God? Yet they do happen and continue. If not why then would you assert that records could not have been destroyed or suppressed by the same entity from which some of these atrosities has arisen without Satan having beaten God? It would be the height of nievity to believe you know all Satan is capable of or allowed to do that God cannot overcome.


You are a professional at twisting words and ideas to fit your biases.

I’m done playing your mental gymnastics.

Jesus is King, so Mary is Queen.


I cannot find it under apologetics-sacred scripture. What did you put in the title?


Just use some common sense and ready a history book. Work back from the council of Nicea to the Crucifixion.

Ignore the sectarian argument, and just look at the secular. Until the schism between the East and West there was 1 Catholic Church.


Alas I’m sorry we could not reason to conclusion and truth. I only wish you would have shown where I went wrong in my understanding. Unfortunately I run into this time and again, if no answer is readily apparent then it is more expedient and acceptable to the person to simply ignore the assertions and continue with the convenient and comfortable fiction which has been created for them.
Go with God and may he bless all your days.


I must confess I cannot find the post on this sight. I do however have copies of the posts in my files at home. I will upload them as a reply to you as soon as I can. I am anxious to get your responses concerning such things.


My good scholar, if I hadn’t read many history books I would have no business making any assertions concerning the Church in these threads. I have and so I do. Seems even common sense is condemned to the trash heap when trying to reason through already established opinions. Look at my responses to post 54 concerning which 1 Church we are dealing with. Get back to me on your opinion on the matter. Perhaps I have missed something pertinent. God bless you…


The posts I’m referring to were under the thread “Teaching on Mary’s sinlessness”. I attempted to locate the thread on here but it has either inadvertently been lost in the upgrade to the new site or it was removed. I haven’t the capabilities of scanning the posts into this thread right now so perhaps it would be more expedient if you would direct me towards the exposition you speak of or give an overview of its main points on here so that I may direct my opinions upon them and then you may make comment on where I may be mistaken. Thank you for your input.


Are you talking about the article on kecharitomene?


I thought it might be helpful if I shared my faith story. I was born 54 years ago to Catholic parents who baptized me into the Catholic Church a few days after birth. Right before I started school my parents taught me the basic Catholic prayers. Then I started school at the parish school. The good Sisters of Mercy taught me about everything from The Trinity to the Life, Death and Resurrection of Jesus. They also taught me about the Blessed Virgin Mary. They did not back anything up with scripture references. We just believed it because they said so.

Over the years I was confronted by non-Catholics who challenged my beliefs as un-scriptural. I had no answer for them. Then at about age 35 I discovered Catholic Answers. I read the Bible from cover to cover for the first time. I also read several books they recommended as well as internet sites especially Dave Armstrongs website. This was before he took them all down to put them into a couple of books. All these resouces strengthed my faith in all the church’s teachings. I realized though that I was predisposed to believe and these arguments may not be clear enough to change a non-Catholic mind. But I would say at this point that the Bible is not a Catechism. It was not meant to be a systematic exposition of the faith. In the early Church people were not even sure what the inspired writings of the New Testament were. People learned the faith from the Church.No wonder St Paul says the Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth 1 Tim 3:15.

One doctrine I was sure of just through scripture was the Eucharist. After studying John 6 and the various accounts of the Last supper I had no doubt that the Eucharist we receive at Mass is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. Since the Catholic Church is the only Christian Church to believe this I knew the Catholic Church was the one mentioned in 1 Tim 3:15


So, I had a bit of a problem with Marian theology until I attended a procession on the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. I remember thinking ‘why am I here?’ I was struggling with the question of veiling or not veiling. A still small voice told me ‘I am the mother of your Lord, and you see me veiled, so why not you?’ And then it just kinda clicked and I saw her as mom. My advice is (if you have a positive relationship with your mother) to think of her as mom. I also prayed that she’d help me get over my protestant hesitations regarding veneration of her.


I also struggled in the beginning with this subject. I even had to confess my lack of faith regarding Our Lady. And once I did this, she started revealing herself to me. Here is a list I posted in other topic that might help. It regards to her ascension to Heaven.

“In a nutshell, Holy Mary has been resurrected and elevated to the Heavens because she isn’t like any other human. Some of the main explanations I know are below.

  • She is the greatest of God’s creatures;
  • she is the true queen of the Heavens (as mentioned by stpurl in this topic);
  • her body wasn’t subject to the corruption after death (i.e. her body would not decompose), therefore her body couldn’t remain on Earth or else it would probably be violated;
  • she is the new and eternal Ark of the Covenant that must remain preserved where God duels;
  • she, as the “lawyer of the living”, must be alive herself in order to defend the faithful living who try to live by her example; and
  • she is the Perfect Daughter of God Father, the Admirable Mother of God Son, and the Most Loyal Bride of God the Holy Spirit, thus, she must remain united with her Godly family.”


I thought I would struggle with the Marian Devotion when my conversion started few weeks ago, but my love for Our Mother increases every day!
I recomend you start to pray the Rosary every day, it helps a lot. I’ m now working on my devotion for Our Lady of Fátima.


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