Protestant converts: How did you deal with the Church's Marian doctrines?


#61

It is a way of showing affection. It is not worship which is intended for God alone.

Otherwise if you ever had a lover, and called them your life, your sweetness or your hope, you would be idolizing them, making them your God.

I have called my wife my life, and I don’t mean to replace God with her.

Christ is properly the life, and our life, but others also mean so much to us that they are like our whole life, and that is the sentiment expressed in the salve regina prayer, which originates in an expressive Latin culture, vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra!


#62

All of that is completely irrelevant. I didn’t say “Christ promised that there would never be theological controversies in His Church”. What I said was “Christ promised that His Church would never teach false doctrine”.

A classic example is the Council of Jerusalem. There was a controversy, the individual Apostles disagreed going into the council, and then the Magesterium arrived at a definitive teaching that was to be universally believed by all the faithful and that was submitted to even by the Apostles who originally disagreed with it. That conclusion is guaranteed to be true, because Christ promised that such teachings would be.

Another good one is the Arian heresy, which was incredibly widespread in its day. The Magesterium of the Church arrived at a definitive teaching on Arianism in the same way, and I know that that teaching is true not because I happen to agree with it, but rather because Christ promised to protect His Church from proclaiming false doctrine.


#63

I declare only that I beg Christ and his father lead me to truth and help sustain me in following it.
I ask no Catholic to leave their Church but to follow their heart in giving themselves to Christ or fight the good fight in trying to. I would say the same to a protestant or Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim. Work out your own salvation says the scriptures. To whom shall you go? Go to Christ with the help of the Holy Spirit. The Church I adhere to is non denominational and Christian, in that I believe I am trying to do what he requests of us. I fully agree with everything Catholics do that I can trace back to Christ in his declaring that we should do to be saved. All other things are open to debate and if not capable of being resolved reasonably or comprehensibly as to being of God or Satan should be put aside and not declared as Holy truth but speculative opinion. I believe that we are all equal in the eyes of God and wisdom can come from the mouth of babes. I believe that if an appointed Sheppard should fail in protecting his flock or leads them astray his appointment should be repealed through open debate lead by the Spirit. I believe that Christ’s truth is self evident and ingrained within all his children and when his children mistake theological speculation for Gods saving truth and leaders convolute and confuse with dense verbiage and poorly understood concepts in order to prove their own version of Christ’s self evident and simple truths that opens the path for many to certain death. There are Gods children throughout the world, and Satan’s, and not all are Catholic. Gods body is comprised of those who are his children evident in their Character, observable in their behavior. If you worship in good conscience and innocence then remain where you are. Should the Holy Spirit allow you to see injustice or error within the Church then stand and be counted among those who would fight against it. God willing in the end we’ll all be able to embrace even through our differences. I for one cannot in good conscience join a Church whose doctrines I cannot relate to Christ nor recognize in my soul the light, however feeble, of Gods shining truth. If we are to believe in asking and receiving then I ask the Holy Spirit for help in recognizing Christ’s truth and doing the same for others. If I am sincere then I have to believe the questions I ask and the answers I get on this site are to the benefit of both me and those who read my posts.
God be with us all who seek him.


#64

I would ask you…in what way are they your “whole” life? Are you saying this is merely hyperbole meant to seem greater than you actually mean?
One should be careful with ones words. Privately your inner intentions are self evident but publicly those same intentions may be misconstrued and taken out of proper context by others. This is why I don’t agree with these phrases made public. This is why people constantly get confused. Its as if one thinks that to show proper affection for Mary one has to confuse those who have yet to understand or have explained to them the context of your intent.
There is a gradation to some phrases but little room for others. We risk confusion and rendering words meaningless with constant equivocation.
On another note…When Jesus said “…if you love anyone else more than me you are not worthy of me.” Do you think he was doing the same? Its kind of hard to be able to put into perspective loving someone who lived 2000 years ago more than say the mother of your children. Do you suppose we get in the habit of using all encompassing terminology out of being more relatable to our own situations?


#65

In which sense of the word “my life” be taken wrong?

There is nothing to confuse, just as if someone said to their girlfriend, you are my life, nobody would be confused in what they meant.

How could you love Jesus, he lived 2000 years ago? What does time or living 2000 years have to do with love? Mary is alive in heaven, as is Jesus, and she prays for us now, so we have respect and love for her because she cares for us.

You can’t love Mary too much, just as you can’t love any human too much. Worshiping her as God is not love. Jesus said “Behold your Mother”, and entrusted Mary to us as our Mother. This is the Catholic understanding. We ought to love our Mother.


#66

If praying to Mary was important then saint Paul . would have included this doctrine.

As it us the church can barley even do what he taught and demonstrated


#67

Mary was still around on Earth at the time. And since when is Paul the definer of Christian doctrine?


#68

Sence when was saint Paul a definer of doctrine???

3/4 of the new testament does seem to define this question… And other doctrine’s. For the deciple of ???

Yes it seems that people are a deciple of ??
1cor 1:12.
Iam of Paul or iam of Apollo’s. Or iam of Mary??


#69

You assume that all doctrine was written doctrine. There is proof in the Bible that not all teaching / doctrine was written but verbal.

Praying to the Saints to pray for us is a Biblical doctrine though, especially in Maccabees and Revelation.

The biggest proof is there was no “Bible” at the time of writing the New Testament.

They couldn’t recommend something that hadn’t been completely written yet.


#70

Sorry but I don’t assume anything you said.

Saint Paul teaches how to fuction as a deciple.
And how to partner with the holy spirit.
And gives examples.
And as he said in 1cor. These are the basics.


#71

I agree that he taught the Christians living then and us now how to be a disciple, and cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

You are assuming he would have included it, where did Paul teach “If I don’t include a teaching, it is not important?”


#72

As to the Galatians. who has bewitched you?Did you receive the holy spirit by these other peoples teaching?

Saint Paul instructions to the new testament Churchs he wrote to. Was to be guided by the holy spirit.

I pray that the eyes of your understanding will be enlightened.
That you will know the hope of your calling on Christ.
These are the basics.


#73

If I remember correctly, Paul wrote under divine inspiration. Paul isn’t the definer of doctrine: the Holy Spirit is.


#74

Okay, I received the Holy Spirit in confirmation, when the Bishop layed hands on me.

The Holy Spirit teaches us to pray, and to ask the one “full of the grace of the Holy Spirit”, the one who carried the Holy Spirit in her womb for 9 months, to pray for us.

Do you not ask your friends to pray for you?


#75

Yes of course it is accepted that saint Paul was directed by the holy spirit.


#76

I don’t fit your criteria as I am a cradle Catholic, but I wanted to share with you what I am about to say and this is also a blind post and someone may have already said it.

You do not need to pray to Mary. It is not a requirement to do so. It is a suggestion, recommended, but never a requirement.

I myself do not pray to Mary, any saint or pray the rosary. I pray to God and Jesus as He is God, alone.


#77

Am I not somebody? I am asking. For instance I might think you mean that you would sell your soul to the devil if your girlfriend asked you to. Many a girlfriend I would guess has asked their boyfriends to do things inappropriate under the pretense of proving their love. By saying “you are my life” are you saying you would do anything for that person regardless of how it might be against your own convictions? When you speak to other people, you speak to God. You only have one life to give. Shouldn’t your words reflect that in importance? What if you have children? If you give your one life to your wife, if your not exaggerating what’s left to give to your children? If you are equivocating then that’s an insult to your wife. If not, that’s an insult to your children.

Generally speaking the further separated in time one is from the person one claims to love the more idealistic and less realistic that love becomes. Considering the small amount of information we have about the historical Jesus Psychologically this would be aptly applied. You of course will consider Jesus an exception to the general rule having a supernatural Loving affiliation with him defined within the context of your religious beliefs. We know even less about Mary but I’m sure you would place her in the same context setting aside our differing opinions on doctrines. concerning her. In order to claim you cant love too much you will have to define how one can love someone too much first for me. Can you do that? I do absolutely agree with your last statement. We ought to love our mothers, as we love ourselves, or our neighbors.


#78

Um its my understanding the son was carried in her womb not the Holy spirit or the father, or are you saying that they are the same so there is no distinguishing them in the womb? I think concerning Mary the context is the same as with Stephen, not that the Holy Spirit was being carried in her womb.
Stephen was full of the grace of the holy spirit also.


#79

God the Son assumed human form in the person of Jesus. When we say Mary is the Mother of God, we are acknowledging this truth.


#80

Really well thought out answer!!

But the interesting thing is when spiritually anointed people are gatherer together…
The Spirit it self bears witness we are son’s of God – romans CH 8—


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