Protestant miracles and healings - real?


#1

Anyone familiar with Benny Hinn or Ernest Angley. You know those mass healings on TV, where the Rev. says “You are healed” and the person falls down, etc. is this stuff the protestants do real? Why would God work through these protestants who reject 95% of what Jesus teaches through his Catholic church?


#2

Sometimes it can be real. As for Benny Hin, there was a program on TV about hin not too long ago. I think it was either Date Line, or 20/20. Whatever it was, they took a hard look at his “healings.” There was one woman who they had taped who was “healed” by him. She had lung cancer, and after he “healed” her, she began couching really hard. He claimed that it was the healing taking place. She died something like a month later from the cancer. He claimed it was because she had doubted the healing so she had lost it. You don’t lose your healing because of doubt anymore than you can lose your salvation because of doubt.

Be careful around people like that. Anyone who has mega healing services is someone to doubt. It’s easy to “fake” a healing. Basically, you can get someone who claims to have a certain physical problem, touch them to “heal” them, and then get them to say that they are healed. The TRUE healings are those that can be medically documented. Any other claim of healing should be taken with a grain of salt.


#3

I don’t put much (actually any) stock in faith healing, and those of the “health and wealth” ministries, especially like those of Benny Hinn. It seems more like people getting caught up in the excitement of the moment, thinking they were healed. And if they weren’t healed, it’s because they didn’t have enough faith, or didn’t give enough money. I think it’s a dangerous ruse that keeps people from seeking the medical help they really need.

You may want to check out this thread: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=8135


#4

Also about Benny Hinn, I heard on the radio, (I think it was the Bible answer man:o ) that he has prophesied(sp?) and the prophecy has not come true. Therefore, he is a false prophet. I never looked into it myself, but Benny Hinn has done alot of prophecy so it would not be too hard to find out if they are true or not.


#5

[quote=MariaG]Also about Benny Hinn, I heard on the radio, (I think it was the Bible answer man:o ) that he has prophesied(sp?) and the prophecy has not come true. Therefore, he is a false prophet. I never looked into it myself, but Benny Hinn has done alot of prophecy so it would not be too hard to find out if they are true or not.
[/quote]

Anyone who thinks they are entitled to own luxury jets and mansions for their ministry automatically throws up a red flag in my book.


#6

[quote=dizzy_dave]Anyone familiar with Benny Hinn or Ernest Angley. You know those mass healings on TV, where the Rev. says “You are healed” and the person falls down, etc. is this stuff the protestants do real? Why would God work through these protestants who reject 95% of what Jesus teaches through his Catholic church?
[/quote]

Or, why should God not :slight_smile: ?

It is God Who works miracles. Not man. God is not answerable to man. God did not have to call Abram from Ur, in the first place - He called Abram from the worship of other gods because it was His will to do so. No other reason other than this is needed - that God willed it.

And so with miracles - if God so wills, he can work through anyone whom He wishes: our human frailties are no barrier. Catholics are not the only creatures on earth :slight_smile:

Whether, in a given case, there has been a miracle, is another question - but it applies to all claims of this kind: including Catholic claims. A lot of claims are probably mistaken, maybe fraudulent (though one must hope that is rare) - but the same may be said of any body of claims that a miracles has happened. And there is also the question of what is understood by the category of miracle - which may vary throughout culture and history, and from one set of believers to another. So such claims have to be looked at theologically, certainly, but also with an awareness that what may have seemed miraculous in first-century Palestine, say, might not be miraculous by the standards of Scholastic theology.

If God works miracles among Catholic Christians - why not in the history of the Roman empire ? The Roman historians have a lot to say about miracles - this was one of the replies to Christians; the gods had done may miracles on behalf of Rome, so the Christian God had no attraction on that score. These miracles were a vindication of the traditional religion of the Roman state - some of them are like those in the Old Testament, with miraculous alterations of weather (which is reminiscent of the fall of stones (= hail ?) which defeated the Philistines at Aphek).

Was the storm of stones a miracle as we might understand the category ? God can use created things to save - it does not follow that those things are, in themselves, beyond or above nature. But they can still be mighty acts of saving power, in their effects, even though they might, in a different setting, be quite usual and unremarkable. A severe storm, scattering an enemy fleet, might be a miracle for its beneficiaries - it could be a saving act, without being “supernatural” - it could still be , in principle, the kind of event predictable by a meteorologist using the means at his disposal. Which is not in the least to deny that “supernatural” acts or events are, in principle, possible within the world as we know it.

If God is the same God in 1000 BC as in 2000 AD - why should we expect God to work miracles only for a very small section of the human race ? The category of miracle, implies a lot of questions, of many kinds. ##


#7

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## Or, why should God not :slight_smile: ?

It is God Who works miracles. Not man. God is not answerable to man. God did not have to call Abram from Ur, in the first place - He called Abram from the worship of other gods because it was His will to do so. No other reason other than this is needed - that God willed it.

And so with miracles - if God so wills, he can work through anyone whom He wishes: our human frailties are no barrier. Catholics are not the only creatures on earth :slight_smile:

Whether, in a given case, there has been a miracle, is another question - but it applies to all claims of this kind: including Catholic claims. A lot of claims are probably mistaken, maybe fraudulent (though one must hope that is rare) - but the same may be said of any body of claims that a miracles has happened. And there is also the question of what is understood by the category of miracle - which may vary throughout culture and history, and from one set of believers to another. So such claims have to be looked at theologically, certainly, but also with an awareness that what may have seemed miraculous in first-century Palestine, say, might not be miraculous by the standards of Scholastic theology.

If God works miracles among Catholic Christians - why not in the history of the Roman empire ? The Roman historians have a lot to say about miracles - this was one of the replies to Christians; the gods had done may miracles on behalf of Rome, so the Christian God had no attraction on that score. These miracles were a vindication of the traditional religion of the Roman state - some of them are like those in the Old Testament, with miraculous alterations of weather (which is reminiscent of the fall of stones (= hail ?) which defeated the Philistines at Aphek).

Was the storm of stones a miracle as we might understand the category ? God can use created things to save - it does not follow that those things are, in themselves, beyond or above nature. But they can still be mighty acts of saving power, in their effects, even though they might, in a different setting, be quite usual and unremarkable. A severe storm, scattering an enemy fleet, might be a miracle for its beneficiaries - it could be a saving act, without being “supernatural” - it could still be , in principle, the kind of event predictable by a meteorologist using the means at his disposal. Which is not in the least to deny that “supernatural” acts or events are, in principle, possible within the world as we know it.

If God is the same God in 1000 BC as in 2000 AD - why should we expect God to work miracles only for a very small section of the human race ? The category of miracle, implies a lot of questions, of many kinds. ##
[/quote]

Correction to above reference - see Joshua 10.11 - for “Philistines at Aphek” read “Amorites at Azekah” :slight_smile:


#8

Benny Hinn is the PRIME example of what Jesus said…“on that day…they will say, Lord, Lord, did we not do XYZ in your name”?

…“and I will say depart from me…I NEVER KNEW YOU”

If that passage aint about the Benny Hinns of the world, I dont know what is… :eek:


#9

[quote=AmandaPS]Anyone who thinks they are entitled to own luxury jets and mansions for their ministry automatically throws up a red flag in my book.
[/quote]

Do you feel the same way about the Pope? :confused:


#10

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Do you feel the same way about the Pope? :confused:
[/quote]

The Pope does not claim to own the Vatican or Castilo Gandolfo (sp?). His quarters are very spartan and the only things he claims as his (last I heard) were his papal clothes.


#11

I believe God could give the ability to work miracles in His name to anyone He desired. The only miracle I would never believe could be connected to anyone but a Catholic would be those associated with the Eucharist. To my knowledge there has never been a Eucharistic miracle even claimed outside the Church.


#12

[quote=AmandaPS]The Pope does not claim to own the Vatican or Castilo Gandolfo (sp?). His quarters are very spartan and the only things he claims as his (last I heard) were his papal clothes.
[/quote]

Amanda, Is it a sin to have the best of everything? Everything we have belongs to God. My point is we are quick to condem others. You look at somebodys wealth and are quick to judge. :confused:


#13

How about when the apostles complained to Jesus about casting out demons by non christians. Jesus reply was if they are for us they then cannot be against us. :confused:


#14

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Amanda, Is it a sin to have the best of everything? Everything we have belongs to God. My point is we are quick to condem others. You look at somebodys wealth and are quick to judge. :confused:
[/quote]

Actually, that was what Benny Hinn himself said in an interview when asked why he needed mansions and several Lear jets. Where is the humility? His flaunting the use of the money that people donated to his ministry for personal self agrandizement does not give the glory to God. It was giving glory to himself.


#15

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Amanda, Is it a sin to have the best of everything? Everything we have belongs to God. My point is we are quick to condem others. You look at somebodys wealth and are quick to judge. :confused:
[/quote]

But remeber what JC said:

Matt. 10:21
** Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou
hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

10:22
** And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.**
10:23
** And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the
kingdom of God!**
10:24
** And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard
is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!**
10:25
** It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the
kingdom of God.

This is why I respect catholics more than other denomonations (even though I am not a christian), Because the priests and nuns put their spiritual “money where there mouth is” so to speak.


#16

[quote=Monarchy]But remeber what JC said:

Matt. 10:21
** Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou
hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

10:22
** And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.**
10:23
** And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the
kingdom of God!**
10:24
** And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard
is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!**
10:25
** It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the
kingdom of God.

This is why I respect catholics more than other denomonations (even though I am not a christian), Because the priests and nuns put their spiritual “money where there mouth is” so to speak.
[/quote]

What you are missing here is that the love of money is the root of evil. You cant serve two masters. Having money is not a sin. God wants the best for all of us. All God want is 10% of our money to further His kingdom here on earth and we cant even do that. In order for that camel to go through the eye of the needle,all had to be stripped off. We have to get rid of our excess baggage.Where is our treasure? It should be on heavenly things to further Gods kingdom. :wink:


#17

[quote=SPOKENWORD]What you are missing here is that the love of money is the root of evil. You cant serve two masters. Having money is not a sin. God wants the best for all of us. All God want is 10% of our money to further His kingdom here on earth and we cant even do that. In order for that camel to go through the eye of the needle,all had to be stripped off. We have to get rid of our excess baggage.Where is our treasure? It should be on heavenly things to further Gods kingdom. :wink:
[/quote]

**Matt. 10:21
** Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou
hast, and give to the poor,
and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

I think this refutes what you said.


#18

To anyone interested the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal has a page on Benny hinn. Very interesting what stuff this guy pulled.


#19

[quote=Monarchy]**Matt. 10:21
** Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou
hast, and give to the poor,
and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

I think this refutes what you said.
[/quote]

AND HAVE WE DONE AS MUCH? I PERSONALLY HAVE NOT SOLD EVERYTHING I OWN AND GAVE IT TO THE POOR. I REALLY CANT SPEAK FOR YOU EITHER. WHY NOT? :confused:


#20

[quote=SPOKENWORD]AND HAVE WE DONE AS MUCH? I PERSONALLY HAVE NOT SOLD EVERYTHING I OWN AND GAVE IT TO THE POOR. I REALLY CANT SPEAK FOR YOU EITHER. WHY NOT? :confused:
[/quote]

Two things. One: Typing in all caps in the online equivelent to shouting at the top of your lungs. Two: I am just saying that is what the bible says. I am not a christian, and so do not give the bible much credit.


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