Protestant ordinariate


#1

I’ve brought up a hypothetical idea for bringing protestants back into the Catholic Church based on the Anglican ordinariate.

What changes would protestants have to make in order to join the Church and what traditions, liturgy, and confessional documents would they be able to keep.

I’m not looking to convert just interested in a theoretical idea.


#2

They would have to recognized the Papacy without question. They would have to accept the dogmatic decrees on Mary. They would have to accept baptism for remission of sins-infant baptism as well/Eucharist-real presence. Those would be a must (no brainer)…in recognizing the Papacy one would have to recognize the Popes Encyclicals on contraception and abortion as well. (something unfortunately many protestants hold onto like it’s life or death-contraception being the biggy.


#3

Primarily the “Profession of Faith” contained n the Pastoral Provision.

I don’t know if it has changed since John Paul II’s PP of 1980.


#4

Somehow I really don't see such a thing working. Many Protestants hate the Church's doctrines on Mary and the Saints as an example. And many Protestants wouldn't even consider submitting themselves to the Pope. So yeah, I really don't see such a thing working. And besides that, many Protestants don't really even have a liturgy and they'd have to develop one.


#5

[quote="mitex, post:1, topic:279947"]
I've brought up a hypothetical idea for bringing protestants back into the Catholic Church based on the Anglican ordinariate.

What changes would protestants have to make in order to join the Church and what traditions, liturgy, and confessional documents would they be able to keep.

I'm not looking to convert just interested in a theoretical idea.

[/quote]

Mitex,

A tin of beans contains beans. Protestants are protestants and always will be.
A true protestant would never join the Catholic Church let alone the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham.

Lifequest
A member of the Anglican Ordinariate.


#6

[quote="defenderoftruth, post:2, topic:279947"]
They would have to recognized the Papacy without question. They would have to accept the dogmatic decrees on Mary. They would have to accept baptism for remission of sins-infant baptism as well/Eucharist-real presence. Those would be a must (no brainer)...in recognizing the Papacy one would have to recognize the Popes Encyclicals on contraception and abortion as well. (something unfortunately many protestants hold onto like it's life or death-contraception being the biggy.

[/quote]

What you mentioned are the reasons why reconciliation is highly unlikely; while I can only speak for myself, the biggest divide would be recognizing the Papacy without question.


#7
  1. Accept the authority of the Pope.
  2. Accept the theology of the Catholic Church - including salvation by grace, and faith through works; scripture AND tradition as authoritative; the bishops and the Pope as authoritative; the seven sacraments; statues and icons can be venerated, as can the saints they depict; Mary is the Mother of God, free from the stain of original sin, a perpetual virgin, and the greatest of the Saints (although she is still only venerated, not worshipped). And so on.
  3. Develop a "Protestant liturgy" (although why bother? The current Roman Catholic Mass is about as stripped down as you can get).
  4. Have celibate pastors ordained as proper priests so you can receive the sacraments.
  5. Bam. You've got an ordinariate.

Of course, there is an easier way:

1) Enter the RCIA and get confirmed (and, if you haven't been in the Trinitarian formula, baptised) as a Roman Catholic.


#8

[quote="mitex, post:1, topic:279947"]
I've brought up a hypothetical idea for bringing protestants back into the Catholic Church based on the Anglican ordinariate.

What changes would protestants have to make in order to join the Church and what traditions, liturgy, and confessional documents would they be able to keep.

I'm not looking to convert just interested in a theoretical idea.

[/quote]

Beyond the looking at Doctrines the first thing would be the organizational unit that chose to unite them...would it be Free, Congregational, General Assembly, etc....This discussion would preceed all others.:)


#9

[quote="TarkanAttila, post:7, topic:279947"]

  1. Have celibate pastors ordained as proper priests so you can receive the sacraments.

[/quote]

why would they have to do that? eastern catholic priests marry, or are they not proper priests?. i thought the anglicans would have a rite themselves, i didnt think they were just being absorbed into the latin rite.


#10

[quote="ZxM, post:9, topic:279947"]
why would they have to do that? eastern catholic priests marry, or are they not proper priests?. i thought the anglicans would have a rite themselves, i didnt think they were just being absorbed into the latin rite.

[/quote]

Z,

I agree. All that would be necessary would be a valid priesthood.:)


#11

[quote="ZxM, post:9, topic:279947"]
why would they have to do that? eastern catholic priests marry, or are they not proper priests?. i thought the anglicans would have a rite themselves, i didnt think they were just being absorbed into the latin rite.

[/quote]

Oh, they're proper priests. But we're absorbing the Anglicans through the Latin Church, not any of the Eastern Churches. And in Latin custom, priests are always celibate.

But even in the Eastern Churches, bishops are ALWAYS celibate. Since they'd need bishops, they'd need celibate clerics anyway. Unless Rome's disciplines change sometime. But I doubt that's likely. Priests in the West have been (canonically) celibate since the 1200s.

And in case you're wondering, no, the Anglican Use Catholics are not a separate Church in communion with Rome. They are Roman Catholics - Anglican Use.


#12

The Anglican Ordinariate is possible because Anglican worship and practice is very similar to Catholic. Many Anglicans hold Catholic beliefs regarding the sacraments. The leap for them is far easier than it would be for a Protestant.

That said, I expect that the Anglican Ordinariate could indeed accomodate Protestants who are used to different styles of worship. After all, we Anglicans share a large corpus of hymnody with Protestants. And of course, all the Methodist denominations are daughters of Anglicanism. The Book of Divine Worship is a re-working of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church. It contains "modern language" masses that could be make Protestants comfortable. It would still be a huge leap though.

However there are many aspects of Protestant spirituality that have their origins in the Church Fathers.

[quote="mitex, post:1, topic:279947"]
I've brought up a hypothetical idea for bringing protestants back into the Catholic Church based on the Anglican ordinariate.

What changes would protestants have to make in order to join the Church and what traditions, liturgy, and confessional documents would they be able to keep.

I'm not looking to convert just interested in a theoretical idea.

[/quote]


#13

Like?


#14

[quote="defenderoftruth, post:2, topic:279947"]
They would have to recognized the Papacy without question. They would have to accept the dogmatic decrees on Mary. They would have to accept baptism for remission of sins-infant baptism as well/Eucharist-real presence. Those would be a must (no brainer)...in recognizing the Papacy one would have to recognize the Popes Encyclicals on contraception and abortion as well. (something unfortunately many protestants hold onto like it's life or death-contraception being the biggy.

[/quote]


#15

For those expounding in the area of Anglo=Catholics, Episcopalians, Apostolic Succession etc., I would suggest reading the article by Fr. Brendan McCarthy regarding the Edwardine Ordinal, the rites of Ordaining Bishops cir. 1550-1552. Therein lies interesting information of how the Church of England tries to retain apostolic Succession and how Elizabeth I and Mary messed about the rites. WWW. Catholic Insights.com and link to Ewardine Ordinal or go direct via IE.


#16

[quote="logicone, post:15, topic:279947"]
For those expounding in the area of Anglo=Catholics, Episcopalians, Apostolic Succession etc., I would suggest reading the article by Fr. Brendan McCarthy regarding the Edwardine Ordinal, the rites of Ordaining Bishops cir. 1550-1552. Therein lies interesting information of how the Church of England tries to retain apostolic Succession and how Elizabeth I and Mary messed about the rites. WWW. Catholic Insights.com and link to Ewardine Ordinal or go direct via IE.

[/quote]

This has been a hobby of mine, for around 10+ years. I'd recommend two books by Fr. J. J. Hughes: ABSOLUTELY NULL AND UTTERLY VOID and STEWARDS OF THE LORD, for a good understanding of the history, personalities, politics, theology and other points on this sad and complicated subject. Fr. Hughes, who was the first Anglican priest since Apostolicae Curae was issued to be ordained a RC priest sub conditione, makes the most reasonable case for the Anglican position; ABSOLUTELY NULL concentrates on the history of the events, STEWARDS on the theology . For the best exposition of the official RC position, I recommend (then Jesuit Father)_Francis Clark's ANGLICAN ORDERS AND DEFECT OF INTENTION. These sources look at the subject in rather more depth.

GKC


#17

[quote="TarkanAttila, post:11, topic:279947"]
Oh, they're proper priests. But we're absorbing the Anglicans through the Latin Church, not any of the Eastern Churches. And in Latin custom, priests are always celibate.

[/quote]

Man, we **really **need to get in touch with the pope, to let him know what a big mistake he's making. :eek:

:D

But seriously, I wonder how many Anglicans have, in fact, been received into EC Churches over the years. Probably not very many, but an interesting possibility nonetheless.


#18

[quote="TarkanAttila, post:7, topic:279947"]
1. Accept the authority of the Pope.
2. Accept the theology of the Catholic Church - including salvation by grace, and faith through works; scripture AND tradition as authoritative; the bishops and the Pope as authoritative; the seven sacraments; statues and icons can be venerated, as can the saints they depict; Mary is the Mother of God, free from the stain of original sin, a perpetual virgin, and the greatest of the Saints (although she is still only venerated, not worshipped). And so on.
3. Develop a "Protestant liturgy" (although why bother? The current Roman Catholic Mass is about as stripped down as you can get).
4. Have celibate pastors ordained as proper priests so you can receive the sacraments.
5. Bam. You've got an ordinariate.

Of course, there is an easier way:

1) Enter the RCIA and get confirmed (and, if you haven't been in the Trinitarian formula, baptised) as a Roman Catholic.

[/quote]

Or, one could hope that the Catholic Church abandons these man made traditions and embrace Jesus as the Primacy of the Church, and join those in the Church who patiently wait. Otherwise, we will wait to see our separated brethren in heaven.


#19

[quote="batman1973, post:18, topic:279947"]
Or, one could hope that the Catholic Church abandons these man made traditions and embrace Jesus as the Primacy of the Church, and join those in the Church who patiently wait. Otherwise, we will wait to see our separated brethren in heaven.

[/quote]

I'll apologize in advance if this seems uncharitable, but, I read similar posts on how Protestants need to come around to the Catholic way of thinking. It does get a bit irritating, and disheartening. If you truly see us as brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, then treat us like such, and not as unwanted step-kids. My daddy always said that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


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