Protestant Origins Question


#1

I posted this on another Site and got little response, so, I wanted to see if any of the protestants the regular this site could help me out…

Original Post

DISCALIMER:
The question I am about to ask is a geniune question. it is not meant to be in anyway shape or form ment to be an accusation. Nor is it meant to insight any arguements. I am genuinly curious to the answers that can be provided. If you feel the way I am wording this question is in any way shape or form rude, please forgive me.

Answer this question as you would someone that is asking you in earnest and has NO previous knowledge of the subject. I am not going to offer any objections to anything stated as I am simply after your understanding. If anyone else wishes to protest something said, go for it, but I am going to refrain all comments. Try and keep it friendly. No presumptive accusatiosn by either side please

QUESTION:
I have always been curious about how the doctrines that developed from the Reformation came to being. It seems from my understanding that very few if any of the idea presented by the reformation were found in the earliest church. I have done a great deal fo research in prebiblical/post-pentecost churches and do not see the same things that are being taught today by many protestants. A good place to start are the DIDACHE, Ignatius, as well as other early christian leaders. I understand in theory that we should be able to simply follow the bible and that is all, however, in practice, i do not see any agreement between all the differant churches. There are many verses that are very clear, but there are many that are not. This is why i have gone back and looked at the first christians to see what they believe.

Assuming that the main protestant doctrines of Faith are correct, how is it that they did not come into play until close to 1500 years later. I have heard people say that there were factions that came and went that kept the faith alive, but I have not seen any historical evidence. One group (cathars) have been said to be the ‘keepers’ but historicly speaking, were very gnostic and almost pagan in their beliefs. But in essense, these doctrines did not truely surface in any way until the reformation. If you can provide historical evidence, I am very interested in it. All i ask is that you provide citations (and from unbiased sources, I dont count www.Bobs_10_reasons_Catholics_are_flying_pigs.com as a source) If you cannot provide citations, please refrain from using it as I do wish to read up on it.

Doctrines I am curious about:

  1. Sola Gracia
  2. Sola Scriptora
  3. Sola Fida
  4. Once saved Always Saved
  5. Full Emmersion Only Baptism

Also, Please refrain from saying I am over intellectualizing it, or that I am asking the worng questiosn, etc, There appears to be so much confusion among the differant denomonations that for me, to understand WHY you believe this, I need these questions asked.

Please keep all response peaceful. Also, do not use what you see as problems withing the CC as evidence. Proving something wrong does not prove its opposite correct.

To Each of you in Christ


#2

[quote=heisenburg]I posted this on another Site and got little response, so, I wanted to see if any of the protestants the regular this site could help me out…

Original Post

DISCALIMER:
The question I am about to ask is a geniune question. it is not meant to be in anyway shape or form ment to be an accusation. Nor is it meant to insight any arguements. I am genuinly curious to the answers that can be provided. If you feel the way I am wording this question is in any way shape or form rude, please forgive me.

Answer this question as you would someone that is asking you in earnest and has NO previous knowledge of the subject. I am not going to offer any objections to anything stated as I am simply after your understanding. If anyone else wishes to protest something said, go for it, but I am going to refrain all comments. Try and keep it friendly. No presumptive accusatiosn by either side please

QUESTION:
I have always been curious about how the doctrines that developed from the Reformation came to being. It seems from my understanding that very few if any of the idea presented by the reformation were found in the earliest church. I have done a great deal fo research in prebiblical/post-pentecost churches and do not see the same things that are being taught today by many protestants. A good place to start are the DIDACHE, Ignatius, as well as other early christian leaders. I understand in theory that we should be able to simply follow the bible and that is all, however, in practice, i do not see any agreement between all the differant churches. There are many verses that are very clear, but there are many that are not. This is why i have gone back and looked at the first christians to see what they believe.

Assuming that the main protestant doctrines of Faith are correct, how is it that they did not come into play until close to 1500 years later. I have heard people say that there were factions that came and went that kept the faith alive, but I have not seen any historical evidence. One group (cathars) have been said to be the ‘keepers’ but historicly speaking, were very gnostic and almost pagan in their beliefs. But in essense, these doctrines did not truely surface in any way until the reformation. If you can provide historical evidence, I am very interested in it. All i ask is that you provide citations (and from unbiased sources, I dont count www.Bobs_10_reasons_Catholics_are_flying_pigs.com as a source) If you cannot provide citations, please refrain from using it as I do wish to read up on it.

Doctrines I am curious about:

  1. Sola Gracia
  2. Sola Scriptora
  3. Sola Fida
  4. Once saved Always Saved
  5. Full Emmersion Only Baptism

Also, Please refrain from saying I am over intellectualizing it, or that I am asking the worng questiosn, etc, There appears to be so much confusion among the differant denomonations that for me, to understand WHY you believe this, I need these questions asked.

Please keep all response peaceful. Also, do not use what you see as problems withing the CC as evidence. Proving something wrong does not prove its opposite correct.

To Each of you in Christ
[/quote]

A short and sweet answer.
Doctrines came about when scripture was used as the authority.
All of these doctrines can be argued based solely on scripture----I am well aware that there are those that would say they could refute these doctrines based on scripture. The point is these doctrines came about when men studied the scripture for answers.


#3

My appologies and perhaps I should have been more clear about what i was asking.

Where were these doctriens for the first 1500 years…

I am not interested realy in the aspects of these beleifs, but more, why they didnt develope until 15 centuries after the fact.

You say this occured when people began looking to the bible alone for answers. Again though, there is no Historical evidence of this for the first 1500 years. I know there are individuals here and there that may have said extremely waterdown versions of this, bit there has never been a ‘faction’ in christianity that followed this untill Luther.So, it begs the question, if this is what god intended, why did it not realy surface until then.

This also brings up another question. if they read the bible alone to detirme bible alone? How did they know that reading the bible alone would produce this belief. Sorta a which cam first. If you start with the notion that that is all you need, you are already predespositioned to that belief.

Finally, if there is no real historical evidence, how is it that interpretations form the 1500’s are more accurate than interpretations from the time of christ? Were those that developed this belief better than those directly taught by the apostles?

To you in christ


#4

I understand your question, you see protestants and catholics start from different points therefore their views are different.
The belief not that they were closer to Christ than the first century church but closer than the 16th century church.
The reformers didnt base their teachings on writings of 4th, 5th, 10th or 13th century scholars made a decision to base an scripture alone. They believed the teachings had drifted so far from the word of God that it was necessary to return to it in order to correct the deviation.
Catholics believe in a direct link or line from the apostles to the present day. Protestants believe that the church was “hijacked” by oppression, corruption, abuse and apostacy needing to return to its roots.
You who believe in the direct linage can not understand how people can so easily disregard that lineage. Some Protestants believe that linage wandered off ‘the way’ so placed little importance in it. There are some Protestants that still uphold their
Apostolic succession.


#5

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.