Protestant POV of distance of stars, and galaxies


#1

I like to know the Protestant point of view about the distance of Stars.

In Astronomy, the light travels 299,792,458 meters per second.

The closest star would take 4.2 yrs to get there at the speed of light.

The Andromeda Galaxy is 2 million light years away. When a star explodes into a supernova it takes 1-3 million light years for us on earth to see.

So if the earth is literally 6,000 yrs old, how do you explain the light traveling to our eyes and see a Supernova which exploded millions of light years ago? Would it contradict the literal 6,000 yrs of the creation of the universe?


#2

it is relatively meaningless to ask for the “protestant point of view” on anything. their is no “protestant point of view.” they point in all directions.


#3

Some creationists have developed several theories to try and explain the ‘apparent’ age of the cosmos, though its age of around 12-13 billion years is supported by several lines of astrophysical evidence, including element concentrations in star populations (which otherwise don’t make sense given known theories of stellar element formation). All this is fairly technical but well explained in popular-level books by professional astronomers.


#4

What do creationist think the age of the universe to be? 6,000 yrs? To say that would not make sense. It takes time for light to travel from one point to the next. The light from Andromedia takes 2 millions years to get to earth.


#5

From what I’ve heard from strict creationists is betweeen 6 and 10 thousand years. And the way they have tried to explain away the facts of how long it takes light from distant stars etc. is that God put everything in place with the light already getting to us. With this theory though, it seems to make God as deceptive. If he put everything in place by that thought process, He would be saying although it looks like these distant stars etc. would have to have been around for millions of years, I was just fooling you poor saps.

I’ve heard the same from them regarding the dinosaurs. Some say the dino bones and fossils were put in place by God with the appearance of being extremely old but they really aren’t.

Others have said the dinos are what the bible calls leviathon, so they were actually around during human existence.


#6

With that sort of reasoning, one might also claim that the entire universe was created just yesterday, and God put us all in place as we were yesterday including memories which seemed to give us an apparent life beyond two days ago!


#7

Exactly…doesn’t make much sense when you sit down and think about it for a minute or two.


#8

That is confusing… You know… I believe the discovery of the origins of the universe only reveal the existence of God’s and his creative power.

To me I think Creationist Christians are making the rest of Christianity look bad with their literal view of creation.


#9

I have pondered this as well. If you take the hyperliteral view of Genesis, then there were not any visible stars for the first 4 years after creation. Then new star would pop up in the sky when it’s first rays finally reach us.

Here is something to ponder. Go outside tonight and look at the closest star to us. It’s over 4 light years away. There is only definite thing you can say about that star.

It was there 4 years ago…


You don’t know it’s present state…


#10

I got into a discussion of this very topic with an Evangelical (who had been raised Catholic, by the way). It went something like this:

Dante: So, you acknowledge that we can observe the way the universe behaves, and that we have some ability to understand how it works, right?

Evangelical Dude: Yes.

Dante: Ok, so why don’t astronauts see a “Firmament of the sky” that holds back the waters of the sky when they orbit the earth?

Evangelical Dude: Oh, because the Firmament collapsed at the Fall of Man, because the Fall corrupted all of creation.

Dante: ???

Evangelical Dude: (Confident smile)

Dante: Um, ok…so you think the universe is only 6000 years old?

Evangelical Dude: Yes.

Dante: Well, how do you explain that the light from distant stars and galaxies takes millions of years to reach us, and that we can see some stars and galaxies that are many millions of light years away?

Evangelical Dude: Like I said, because of the the Fall of Man, not only were we corrupted, but all of creation was corrupted… as a result, the speed of light has slowed down.

Dante: ???

Evangelical Dude: (Confident smile)

Dante: Look at the time – our break is almost over!

CURTAIN

Ok, so I’ve taken some stylistic liberties to make it funnier…no disrespect meant to my Evangelical co-star. But how on earth can one argue with that mentality?! Yargh!!!:eek:

Peace,
Dante


#11

I don’t know that this proves them wrong. I don’t believe in the strict Biblical 7 day creationism…but if God wanted to I’ve no doubt He could.

Why?..well why not?

If a person asks an evolutionary Christian why God made the universe, they would likely say because God chose to love us and thus created us to experience His love.
Then they are asked how? So, they respond with billions of years and all the growth and deveolpement.

But then the fundamentalist asks…so couldn’t he make they world exactly as it is right in this instant? Couldn’t God snap and I’m here with a lap top, white t-shirt, and 23 years of memories? I don’t see why not?

So then they quetion is why wait? If He could do it in an instant and make it identical to the 15 billion year brew, couldn’t He just as easily pick either?

I say I doubt 7 day creation, but def. know God could it He wanted to.


#12

I wish you wouldn’t equate “Protestant” with “Young Earth Theory.”

Even more, I devoutly wish that you wouldn’t equate “Young Earth Theory” with “Extreme Stupidity.”

My husband has Bachelor’s Degrees in Computer Science and Mathematics and a Master’s Degree in Computer Science. For years he has subscribed to several scientific journals in which evidence for Young Earth Theory is presented.

He and all of these other scientists are not stupid.

The Catholic Church hasn’t declared a dogma on universe origins.

And the Protestants certainly aren’t the only ones who argue in favor of a Young Earth.

“Young Earth Theory” and “Seven Day Creation Theory” and other theories that go against the grain of the typical U.S.A. scientist are not the exclusive theories of the stupid Protestants.

Please stop saying that these scientists are making Christianity look bad. There have been many scientists over the years who were laughed at and ridiculed for their theories, but they turned out to be RIGHT! A good scientist never claims that he/she knows the absolute truth, especially about orgins of the universe which cannot be proved by scientific method as it happened in the PAST and the past cannot be duplicated in a laboratory experiment.

Surely you have seen for yourself that modern-day scientists are not perfect when it comes to getting the facts straight. There is a great deal of debate in the scientific world when it comes to many issues, including temperature changes, fetus humanity, stem cell research efficacy, causes and treatments for obesity, the genetics of homosexuality, etc. etc.

All the evidence is NOT in, and to imply that science has definitely proven any orgin theory is…well, I’ll say it–stupid.

I will try to persuade my husband to log on and contribute to this thread.


#13

The Church also hasn’t declared that the moon landing wasn’t staged.

Please stop saying that these scientists are making Christianity look bad.

Well, quite frankly, they are.

Surely you have seen for yourself that modern-day scientists are not perfect when it comes to getting the facts straight. There is a great deal of debate in the scientific world when it comes to many issues, including temperature changes, fetus humanity, stem cell research efficacy, causes and treatments for obesity, the genetics of homosexuality, etc. etc.

We could have a fish fry with all those red herrings.


#14

Come now, that seems quite rediculous. No the Catholic Church hasn’t declared the moon landings staged, but of course why would they? Everyone knows it’s true and these wacky detractor’s theories don’t deserve anyones attention, especially the Catholic Church.

Are you suggesting we also as, “Why would they?” about the Church declaring whether the first chapters of Genesis are factual or represenative? That seems quite in the Church’s realm of expertise and in their realm of authority.

Where as the moon landings, I ask why woud they comment?
For Gensis I ask, why haven’t they commented? Because it seems that if anyone really knows what happened when God created the world, the Holy Spirit guided Catholic Church would.

Their silence on this issue seems to insinuate that the do not know. What they do know is this: a perfect world, 1 man, 1 woman, and an original sin. If those all fit into young earth theory then the Church hasn’t crossed it of the list of possibilities.


#15

The Pastor of “Walking in the Word” radio show was covering Genesis. This is what he said:

****[size=3]God made everything old after he created it.[/size]

There is a serious problem with this.

First of he can’t prove this from the Bible since he is a Bible Alone type.

Second, why would God intentionally create everything old at varying degrees?

Third. Is not making something to appear to be something that it is not actually an act of counterfeiting?

Fourth. Is this not an act of Deception on the grandest of scales?

Fifth. Is this act of Deception more in line with something Satan would do instead of something God would do?

Sixth. This deliberate act of making everything old to fool us would make God 'The Great Deceiver" instead of Satan.


#16

What would you equate Young Earth Theory with?

Even more, I devoutly wish that you wouldn’t equate “Young Earth Theory” with “Extreme Stupidity.”

Well can we at least equate it with “Simple Stupidity”?

My husband has Bachelor’s Degrees in Computer Science and Mathematics and a Master’s Degree in Computer Science.

** So do I.**

For years he has subscribed to several scientific journals in which evidence for Young Earth Theory is presented.

** I am curious as to what these Scientific Journals are since I subscribe to a good number myself. Some of the articles presented on this subject have not presented with any (IMHO) creditable evidence.**

He and all of these other scientists are not stupid.

**Agreed. But the problem exists that they could be taking the same approach that anti-catholics take when they come across scripture that is blatantly Catholic in it’s literal interpretation, that they actually start looking for an alternative Theory ( in the anti-catholic approach, an alternative interpretation ) because they believe all current theorys are wrong because of a lot of known and unknown factors. **

The Catholic Church hasn’t declared a dogma on universe origins.

And I hope they don’t.

And the Protestants certainly aren’t the only ones who argue in favor of a Young Earth.

True

“Young Earth Theory” and “Seven Day Creation Theory” and other theories that go against the grain of the typical U.S.A. scientist are not the exclusive theories of the stupid Protestants.

Also true.

**

Please stop saying that these scientists are making Christianity look bad.

It’s not the Scientists that are making Christianity look bad, it is the Hyperliteral Christians that are making Christianity look bad.**

There have been many scientists over the years who were laughed at and ridiculed for their theories, but they turned out to be RIGHT!

We will cross that bridge of being right when we get to it. Not before.

A good scientist never claims that he/she knows the absolute truth, especially about orgins of the universe which cannot be proved by scientific method as it happened in the PAST and the past cannot be duplicated in a laboratory experiment.

True, but was been proving has already disproven the hyperliteralists view.

Surely you have seen for yourself that modern-day scientists are not perfect when it comes to getting the facts straight. There is a great deal of debate in the scientific world when it comes to many issues, including temperature changes, fetus humanity, stem cell research efficacy, causes and treatments for obesity, the genetics of homosexuality, etc. etc.

**Yes and some of these things have already debunked those views held by those Protestants that are thick headed and stubborn enough to deny the reality of scientific evidence. **

All the evidence is NOT in, and to imply that science has definitely proven any orgin theory is…well, I’ll say it–stupid.

True

I will try to persuade my husband to log on and contribute to this thread.

Please do!


#17

Not if the starlight was created reaching the earth! :wink:

I agree with Benedictus, and for once with Manny – those who take the early chapters of Genesis strictly literally aren’t doing other Christians any favors as far as image goes. That it could have happened that way doesn’t make it likely; and furthermore, allowing exceptions to universal laws and constants is just bad science.


#18

It is God who gives us the reasoning ability to make the study of the natural world possible. It is God who makes the natural world intelligible and capable of study by humans. I can’t conceive why God would create a natural world, the study of which would lead to conclusions at variance with reality.

Evidence for the age of the universe isn’t just scientific speculation; it comes from a variety of fields of study: astronomy, physics, star composition and natural sequence of stellar lifecycle; geology and the composition of planets, cosmology, and other disciplines.

I find it implausible that God would put all that evidence there just to throw us off course. And equally implausible that he inspired the initial chapters of the book of Genesis to be used as a scientific text for all future generations.


#19

All’s we know for sure is that the earth is flat. Don’t believe it? Look at all the maps. Have you seen any that are round? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Lighten up, will you? I have an advanced degree myself. Majors in physics, math, and business. I have worked with many computer languages but I still believe in God. :thumbsup:


#20

To be honest, I don’t be believe in the literal creation account in Genesis. I do acknowledge that Adam and Eve are real people and are not fictional.

The first Chapter of Genesis I believe cannot be taken literally that God created the heavens and the earth in 7 days.

Peter even said, that a thousand year for God is a day, or was it the other way around. Anyways, Gospel writers often use large numbers to express the infinity.

For example, when Peter ask Jesus. “How often should I forgive my brother? Seven times?”

Jesus answers. “Seventy times seven.” In otherwords, as many times as you want when he offend you.

The deeper study of Astronomy shows that the Universe had a beginning, and they also concluded that it has an end. The Big Crunch theory. In that theory, it is believe that the universe will expand and then fall into itself.

I doubt this theory as bearing any truth. I have read how the universe will end. Another theory states, that the universe will expand, and the stars will burn out their fuel, and the universe will be complete darkness.

It’s sounds strange doesn’t. I don’t put my faith in those theory. I do believe that the Big Bang bear some truth. God did say, “Let there be light.” I persume this to be the BIG BANG.

There are still stuff out there we don’t know. Perhaps all our answers will be fullfilled if we die in the state of grace and see God, and maybe ask him the question.

I do know one thing, in the end. God will come to earth, judge the living and dead, separate the sheep and the goats, and cast Satan and his demons forever in hell forever. God will be with us forever… and everybody except the damned and Satan and his demons will live happily ever after.


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