Protestant said praying to Mary isn’t in the bible


#182

tbh I can handle anything but this picture makes me question everything I’ve ever believe


#183

God filled her with not merited favor to prevent her from having concupiscence;
the tendency to sin.
And Grace prevented her from sin. Yes, she had a difficult life; but The Church
teaches she was prevented from sinning by Grace. She had the Grace to cooperate
with this Grace fully.
Concupiscence is another way of saying ‘stain of original sin.’


We don’t know why God did not protect all of humanity from sinning; and still give freewill; there are no easy answers; but God in God’s Benevolence Knows.
She was Saved by the merits of Jesus Christ just like anyone else.


#184

Catholics in Grievous sin practice similar things.
The Latin Rite of The Catholic Church does not have a fundamental
Teaching to do these things. Islam does.
One of their fundamental teachings is that Israel must be destroyed,
to bring on the judgement of God.
_
Some of the wars in prudential judgement of those in Authority
in The Church probably were not just; and there are examples
of soldiers doing grievous things even if the war was just.
But this is the same of any earthly military.


#185

His understanding of what the Word of God says on this topic seems very limited. This is the outcome (and the danger) of the Protestant viewpoint that we all can interpret the Word of God personally without an authority to help us do so (i.e. the church that Christ founded, the Holy Roman Catholic and apostolic Church) In fact that viewpoint contradicts what scripture says in many places about how we should not do so, that we NEED an authority.

He is missing the point and throwing a red herring out there. He says the Word of God is only in the written word. That is not true. Why? Because scripture itself says it isn’t.

He didn’t read it then. If he doesn’t want to genuinely understand the Truth then that’s not your problem.

He needs to pay attention to the part that says nothing impure will enter the Kingdom of God. Does he really believe he is pure? It’s only a Google search away if he wants to learn more. I suspect he’d rather stick to his indoctrinated anti Catholicism talking points book :slight_smile:

Protestant anti-Catholicism talking points really are quite easy to dismiss but if they have no interest in understanding then that isn’t your problem.


#186

Yes I’ve seen that before, it’s a modification of an Pro atheist anti-Christian meme. This is the textbook definition of a straw man and is honestly not worth paying attention to.


#187

Rosie,
I admire your tenacity in defending the faith but you’re gonna drive yourself batty. Your job, and you’ve done it well, is to plant seeds and witness to the truth. It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to do the convincing.
At this point my advice to you is
Don’t feed the trolls!!!


#188

Why do Protestants go TO their friends and ask for prayers.

Non-starter argument.


#189

As far as the point I was trying to make, it really doesn’t matter if the Mary mentioned in Romans was the Virgin Mary or someone else. The point I was trying to make was that, according to the Bible, Paul sent a letter to a distant place hoping that a Mary living there would receive it and pray to God on his behalf. What Paul did is really not much different from what Catholics do when they prayerfully address the Virgin Mary in heaven hoping that she will receive their request and pray to God on their behalf.


#190

I think this applies both ways and is the problem of believing things told to us second hand rather than from the believer themselves. I’ve regularly found Catholics being more understanding of non Christian religions than their non Catholic Christian Sisters and Brothers.

We owe it to each other to be gracious to the beliefs of others. Just listen to what the other is saying and try to understand it from their point of view.

We are all at different paths on the road of faith and telling a person that they’re wrong often causes intransigence. We can all feel hard done upon at times and it’s hard to give up hard won convictions especially if we’ve invested a lot in them.

Remember that Man looks on the outside, Good looks at the heart. Also do not get caught up in frivolous and vexacious arguments.

Our job as all of Christianity is to bring the reality of Christ’s love and sacrifice to those who don’t know about it, not to fight over points of doctrine.


#191

as in Litany of Loreto Mary is mentioned as the Ark of the Covenant Luke 7:35 Nevertheless, wisdom is vindicated by all her(Mary) children.”

The Virgin Mary, Queen of all nations, Queen of all hearts, who “held in [her] womb Him whom the heavens cannot contain” (St. Cyril of Alexandria), is wonderfully prefigured in all her splendor in the Book of Ecclesiaticus (Sirach), Chapter 24. Verses 6-10 of this classic Marian text foretell the regality of Our Blessed Lady and the universality of her reign, which extends to all places and peoples.

In this sixth verse the Holy Spirit indicates that the Immaculate Lady Wisdom will bring forth a light to rise that never faileth. Who is this perfect light that rises? It is the uncreated Light that Saint John spoke about in the Prologue of his sublime Gospel. This is the uncreated Light who is the Son of God and the Son of Mary. Why does the Holy Spirit say that He shall rise? The Son of God as the uncreated Light rises by virtue of His Resurrection from the grave and by His glorious Ascension to the right hand of God the Father.

Sirach 24 6 Over waves of the sea, over all the earth,and over every people and nation I have held sway.[7 Among all these I sought a resting place; in whose territory should I abide? 8 “Then the Creator of all things gave me (Mary) a command,and my Creator chose the place for my tent.He said, ‘Make your dwelling in Jacob,and in Israel receive your inheritance.’ 9 Before the ages, in the beginning, he created me,and for all the ages I shall not cease to be.

10 In the holy tent I ministered before him,and so I was established in Zion (Mary). Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king comes to you. Triumphant and victorious is he, humble and riding on a donkey.” This time, Zion(Mary) is identified to “the multitude of the disciples” whose shout of joy was: “Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” (Lk 19:37-38).

those who work against the Mother of God Mary Word of god says…
Psalm 137:5 If I (God says) forget you, O Jerusalem(Mary), let my right hand wither!

Psalm 129:4The Lord is righteous; he has cut the cords of the wicked.
5 May all who hate Zion (Mary) be put to shame and turned backward.

Baruch 4:1-4 She (Mary) is the book of the commandments of God, the law that endures forever. All who hold her (Mary) fast will live, **and those who forsake her will (spiritual) die.**Galatians 4:4-6 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law:
5 That he might redeem them who were under the law: that we might receive the adoption of sons.Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain ;perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married John 1:13 who were born, not of blood …


#192

It’s not me it’s them there commenting on everything I post saying it’s lies


#193

John 21:24 This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and has written them, and we know that his testimony is true. 25 But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

1Cor 11:2 I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions just as I handed them on to you. 2Thess 2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter. 2Thess 3:6 6 Now we command you, beloved,in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from believers who are living in idleness and not according to the tradition that they received from us.Acts 20;35 – Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels

THE APOSTOLIC TRADITION

75 ;Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline.32

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

  • orally ;by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit33

  • in writing by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing 34

. . . continued in apostolic succession

77 ;In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority.35 Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time.36

2Tim2:2 2 and what you have heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will be able to teach others as well.


#194

His new reply again I have to put it in 2 half’s as it’s too big

No my understand of scripture doesn’t go beyond scripture , you are the one trying to add to what the bible says I’m simply reading scripture and simply explaining that it doesn’t imply what your saying it does because it bluntly doesn’t say it so why would I believe something that it doesn’t say?

Danger? No No Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit not a pope , through the Holy Spirit anyone can understand scripture and that just seems a cop out so you have all these pagan beliefs but I need a priest to tell me what the bible means I can’t read it for myself? the priests are my authority on what scripture is saying?
News flash no pope walking the face of this earth is any more “Holy” or of God or more saved then me so my authority is not coming from man but from Gods word

The only way you get beliefs like such if you add to the bible and as I’m sure you know that’s a abomination unto the Lord God

In 313 AD when the law was passed to tolerate Christianity , a while later it became the State religion ,

How can Jesus of started the RC church if it was hundreds of years after he was risen from the dead?

Catholic simply meant “universally agreed” meaning the Jewish converts and gentiles had a common belief that Jesus was God , it wasn’t until later when the Roman Catholic Church was established
the apostles died maximum 72 AD I don’t see how any of them started the Roman Catholic Church?

Jesus is my authority not Man

No scripture itself doesn’t say so , Was Jesus written of in scripture? in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and was God ,

I missed how that relates to Statues of Mary?

Please don’t call me a liar you are bearing false witness if so , I did read it and I quoted one of the verses I been told by a RC Catholic before ,
Read my reply before and what about the call no man teacher or master part you said the bible doesn’t say it … I showed you it did?

Jesus cleansed me of my sin meaning my salvation is completely depending on what he did on that cross for me so I have no “purification” as Jesus has already cleansed me (it’s real basic stuff) to say otherwise is dare I say not fully accepting what Jesus did on that cross

“Anti catholic talking points” **roman catholic talking points but yes it is and scripture can prove it Protestants wouldn’t say it if there were nothing to back it up like I’ve demonstrated over and over again and you seen this image can you fully say the pope isn’t basically worshiped what about Mary why is she worshiped ?

John 1:24 You’ve complete switched it and missed the point firstly

Jesus is the word so the word is very much still in the bible but your claiming something that is not taught by Jesus at all that it’s biblical , did Gods word say to worship Mary or purgatory exists or is it in fact only within the Roman Catholic Church believed


#195

1st Corinthians 11:2-3 Kjv Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God”

Where’s the “traditions” there?
and you should of read the next verse that also clearly teaches “Popes” aren’t the head of the church :slightly_smiling_face:

Two verses before 2 Thessalonians 2
“13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ”

It doesn’t sound like man made tradition at all when you read in context?

No where in them last few paragraphs was it implied that The apostles were the head of the church ,

God gave them them the ability to do many wonderful things and they were called to spread God’s good news Now where is this indicated for them to be the head of the church? They were spreading what Jesus had teached ,

No where did it say the apostles started a church and they are the head of that church and they can step down and give there authority to others for them to then be the leaders…

where exactly was any of that?


#196

people who doubt keep saying repetitive prays ,well the rosary is very biblical, the bible didn’t exist at the time of Jesus or any prophets but few books existed. in Song of Solomon 2:1 I am a rose of Sharon,Rosary came from the word rose, Sirach 6:30 Her(Mary) yoke is a golden ornament,
and her bonds a purple cord =(Rosary). Your understandings of this stuff is relatively new, Christians ;prayed to Mary well before protestantism. Back when the only form of Christianity was Catholic/orthodox. And don’t forget who gave you that book you quote from… a pope. A pope compiled that Bible you take Scripture from. This happened in the 300’s. For 300 years Christians didn’t have a Bible. How did they survive? Answer: The Catholic Church that Christ founded and that has held the faith through the millennia.a lily of the valleys.

as IsaiahSpirit mentioned

genesis to Revelation 73 books are all word of god 2 Timothy 3:1616 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,


#197

That is what Catholics do, they ask their mother (John 19:27) to pray for them to Jesus (her son, God). The Hail Mary is Scripture. Do you have a problem with praying Scripture? Luke 1:28, Luke 1:42 She is a mediator between Jesus and men in a very specific incident in Scripture at the Wedding at Cana. She communicates the needs of the wedding party to her son, and even though He told her it wasn’t His time yet, he obeyed. She comes to our Lord on our behalf. Jesus is our mediator to the Father, Mary has access to her Son. Do you think He stopped being obedient or loving to her once in heaven? He hears His mother even now.

False claim by you as in Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is not this the reason you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God?

but the Bible doesn’t say so . Call No Man Father is your own interpretation and based on false claims and assumptions

Acts 7:2 – St. Stephen calls Jewish leaders “fathers”

Acts 21:40, 22:1 – St. Paul calls Jerusalem Jews “fathers”

Rom 4:16-17 – Abraham called the father of us all”

1Cor 4:14-15 – I became your father in Christ through gospel

1Tim 1:2 – my true child in our common faith

Heb 12:7-9 – we have earthly fathers to discipline us

Lk 14:26 – if anyone comes to me without hating his father…

1Thess 2:11 – we treated you as a father treats his children

Philem 10 – whose father I became in my imprisonment

1Jn 2:13, 14 – I write to you, fathers, because you know him


#198

Only The Catholic Church has the sole right to interpret the scriptures and to correct errors Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son. 2 Timothy 3: 13 But wicked people and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, 15 and how from childhood you have known the sacred writings that are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work.7

Isaiah 34:16 Seek and read from the book of the Lord: Not one of these shall be missing; none shall be without its mate. For the mouth of the Lord has commanded, and his spirit has gathered them.

Matthew 5:18 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter,not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished

Revelation 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book; 19 if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

scriptures pertaining to the Catholic Doctrines, because you are falsely interpreting the bible like most of the protestants denominations, it is difficult for your to accept the truth which the Catholic Church follow and which is GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT and JESUS CHRISH HIMSELF THROUGH HIS TRUE CHURCH AND THE POPE Matthew 16:16-18 7 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.18 And I say to thee : That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

sorry you belong to a man made Church, than what Jesus started the Catholic Church which will never end,hope you repent


#199

Purgatory

The Holy Souls in Purgatory, though they cannot pray for themselves, but they can always prayer for us, family on earth. Though they are physically dead, they are always, still alive in spirit before God and when they reach Heaven, there prayer are is doubly strong.

Ruth 2:20 20 And Naomi said to her daughter-in-law, “Blessed be he by the Lord, whose kindness has not forsaken the living or the dead!” Naomi also said to her, “The man is a relative of ours, one of our nearest kin.”

2 Maccabees 12 44 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 45 But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead that they might be delivered from their sin

Mt 5:48 – be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect

Heb 12:14 – strive for that holiness without which cannot see God

Jam 3:2 – we all fall short in many respects

Rev 21:27 – nothing unclean shall enter heaven

Jam 1:14-15 – when sin reaches maturity gives birth to death

2Sam 12:13-14 – David, though forgiven, still punished for his sin

Mt 5:26 – you will not be released until paid last penny

Mt 12:32 – sin against Holy Spirit unforgiven in this age or next

Mt 12:36 – account for every idle word of judgment day

2Macc 12:44-46 – atoned for dead to free them from sin

1Cor 3:15 – suffer loss, but saved as through fire

1Pet 3:18-20; 4:6 – Jesus preached to spirits in prison

2Tim 1:16-18 – Paul prays for dead friend Onesiphorus

1Cor 15:29-30 – Paul mentions people baptizing for the dead

Hope you come to realize the Truth.


#200

Amen.
It order to enter into the final joy of Heaven;
all concupiscence (weak human will) must be purified.
So anyone who dies in a state of Grace; is forgiven
and justified by Jesus Christ. No one of any understanding of Salvation
has a problem with this.
No one has a problem with that we all go before The Judgement Seat of Christ.
There was a non Catholic devout man who was teaching rather well
regarding killing children with saline solution in the womb is gravely wrong.
A devil appeared to him and said, if you don’t stop I’m going to kill you.
He told the devil you can’t kill me. Well this man died and was taken to The Judgement Seat of Christ.
He said that some hemmed and hawed with lack of humility regarding their sinfulness.
Those immediately went to Ghenna - damnation.
Others had a humble contrite heart and were in agreement with Christ.
This non Catholic man, said they went into a vestibule of Heaven to grow
closer to God; after-which they entered into their final joy.


yes, Paul The Apostle was right; to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord. But our interior heart must be completely conformed to cooperate with God’s Will;
for our person to fully experience the Joy of The Lord.


Another man had a near death experience, and converted because Jesus Christ told him, he couldn’t come into Heaven because he would teach sin.


I think of purgatory as a state of being; that has the Grace to be willing to surrender to the Will of God; purging my concupiscence to be able to exist in Heaven.
A place of Mercy. The alternative, since nothing defiled can enter into Heaven;
would be damnation for most people.


Human history, and much anecdotal evidence in near death experiences recently show
that most people who die; experience a state of being that is not yet Heaven.


#201

[quote=“Rosie11, post:194, topic:518385”]
No my understand of scripture doesn’t go beyond scripture , you are the one trying to add to what the bible says I’m simply reading scripture …[/quote]

false statement by you, what you claims are not in scripture, its only based on assumptions and exaggeration with no fact to support of Scripture,which i have proved scriptural as well as Apostolic tradition is the unspoken Word of god given by Jesus to the Apostles and entrusted to the faithful Popes the successor of st Peter Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son which the Catholic Church follow and which is GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT and JESUS CHRISH HIMSELF THROUGH HIS TRUE CHURCH AND THE POPE and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.A solid promise of Jesus. Psalm 12:6 The promises of the Lord are promises that are pure, silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.

Jeremiah 3:15 “‘And I will give you shepherds (Popes)after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.

All Prayers go to God, there is no dispute of one God (Holy Trinity) or Mediator between God and men Jesus Christ. But saints and Angles are like friends to help us, and intercede for us. Mother Mary being the Mother of God, How much more powerful will be, her intercession before God .

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by its cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you submit to it readily enough.

Veneration of Saints

Jos 5:14 – Joshua fell prostrate in worship before angel

Dan 8:17 – Daniel fell prostrate in terror before Gabriel

Tob 12:16 – Tobiah & Tobit fall to ground before Raphael

Mt 18:10 – angels in heaven always behold face of God (we venerate angels because of their great dignity, which comes form their union with God. Saints also are united with God)

1Jn 3:2 – we shall be like him, we shall see him as he is

1Thess 1:5-8 – you become an example to all the believers

Heb 13:7 – remember leaders, consider/imitate their faith & life

Relics

2Kgs 13:20-21 – contact with Elisha’s bones restored life

Acts 5:15-116 – cures performed through Peter’s shadow

Acts 19:11-12 – cures through face cloths that touched Paul

Statues

*Ex 20:4-5 – do not make and worship any graven images

Ex 25:18-19 – make two cherubim of beaten gold

Num 21:8-9 – Moses made bronze serpent & put on pole

1Kgs 6:23-29 – temple had engraved cherubim, trees, flowers

1Kgs 7:25-45 – temple had bronze oxen, lions, pomegranates

Matthew 12:30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. so are you working for unity of division? by the fruits you will be known


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