Protestant said praying to Mary isn’t in the bible


#302

The New Testament’s “Acts of the Apostles” and “Epistle to the Galatians” record that the first Christian community centered on Jerusalem and that its leaders included Peter, James, the brother of “Jesus,” and John the Apostle. After his conversion, Paul the Apostle claimed the title of “Apostle to the Gentiles”.

That indicates that Messianic Jews, who are actually Christians, were first. But the various Catholic churches soon followed, and the liturgy changed. But who’s to say which sect of Catholicism came first? Paul was evangelizing in the Middle East.


#303

Please show us where.


#304

are you saying that intercessory prayer is not in the Bible?


#305

Not really. The predecessor to what we know as the Messianic Jewish movement started in the 19th century with the modern movement beginning in the 1960s.


#306

yes, the Catholic Church began in the upper room on Pentecost. Yes, the first members were Jewish. Paul wasn’t a different ‘sect’.


#307

Yes, I think that’s true. Yes, I think all the various sects of Catholicism were founded on Christ’s teaching. What’s the point? And what does it have to do with prayer to Mary being in the bible?


#308

There’s a big difference between saying the Church was founded by Jesus Christ and saying various sects were founded on Christ’s teaching.

Catholics believe the first statement and has a different meaning than the second.

it’s an off topic thread. We can drop it if you like.


#309

I don’t see a difference myself. I think they were founded on Christ’s teaching because Christ. himself, wasn’t around to found them. At least not in a physical sense. But they adhere to the teachings of Christ. You’re the first Catholic I’ve met who sees a difference. But going with Pentecost, I could say Christ founded the Catholic church at that time. It’s the same as Abraham founding the Jewish religion or G-d. G-d wasn’t present physically, as Jesus wasn’t, but it was G-d’s will as it was Jesus’s will and the presence of both.


#310

I see a huge difference. And Christ was around to found his Church. He clearly states so in the New Testament.


#311

If you want to say it was founded on Pentecost, he wasn’t around physically. G-d founded Judaism, but he wasn’t around physically, only spiritually.


#312

Theotokos “God bearer” the title given to Mary to refute the Arian heresy
which said that Jesus Christ became Divine.
When translated to English “Mother of God” was used.
“And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” - Luke 1:43
This gives Glory to God, especially The Incarnation of Christ.
Everything believed regarding Mary is to give Glory to God.


#313

So, is praying to Mary in the bible? That’s the actual topic.


#314

Jesus Christ said He will build His Church on Peter,
and whatever is officially bound by The Church is bound in Heaven;
a promise to preserve from inerrant Teaching.
Jesus Christ said I am with you always.
Jesus Christ Himself converted Saul who became Paul The Apostle.
Jesus Christ said The Holy Spirit will guide the Church in all truth.


#315

Yes, Jesus said that. Or it is written that he said it.

It’s the same as G-d establishing Judaism with Abraham. But Jews do not believe in the Trinity.


#316

I think Catholics would interpret these things as saying it is in the bible, but I don’t think you could ever convince a Protestant. And why bother? People have to find their own path to G-d. Trying to change them only makes them more resistant You wouldn’t like someone trying to change your faith.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/praying_to_mary


#317

Prayer to the saints is a Biblical teaching. It’s just not taught in one verse, as many would claim teachings need to be taught.

First let’s start by defining that to pray means to ask. Sure we can worship God while we pray and with our prayers. However, I am sure you would agree when we pray to God for help on an exam we are just asking for help, we aren’t worshiping Him with our exam. So when we pray to the saints or Mary we are simply asking them to pray with us to God.

The Bible commands us to pray for one another, here’s 2 of many… 1 Timothy 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Why does Jesus want us to pray for one another? Because scripture shows us that He will answer a weaker persons prayers based on the stronger person who is praying for them… Matthew 8:13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; be it done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment. Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

We also know that God will more readily answer the prayers of the righteous. James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.

Hebrews tells us that once we get to heaven we will be far more righteous than we are right now. Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.

continued…


#318

Now is where many object saying the saints are dead and can’t hear us. The Bible says that all Christians are members of one Body… 1 Corinthians 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. St. Paul further tells us members of the Body need one another… 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? He goes on to tell us we are not allowed to say we have no need of another part of the body (which is what people do when they say they have no need of the prayers of the saints)… 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” He teaches us how closely connected we are… 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

Keeping in mind that Jesus told us… Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. …so when we put these 2 verses together, we can conclude that when Christians rejoice/suffer on earth the heavens rejoice/suffer as well.

Finally, in Romans we are taught why those in heaven celebrate and suffer with us. Paul tells us that even death does not separate us from being members of the Body of Christ… Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

continued…


#319

In the book of Revelation we see the saints presenting our prayers to God. Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders (the Saints in heaven) fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (on earth); Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.

I hope this helps put a little light on the subject. I know it is a lengthy post, which I could have made even longer. There’s been books written on the subject. But I wanted you to see that there is nothing contrary to the Bible with including the saints and Mary in our prayers to God.

Keep in mind, the Church doesn’t teach you have to pray to Mary and the Saints. We can and do go directly to God with our prayers. The whole teaching of praying to the saints is to include the body of Christ (living or dead) in our prayers to God.

We need to always remember, Jesus commanded us… Matthew 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.” Love God and love neighbor is how He summed it all up. Basically, pray to God and pray for your neighbor is what He is saying. I’m sure you would agree once we get to heaven the love (pray for) neighbor doesn’t go away. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

God Bless


#320

All you can do is point someone to good humble authoritative sources
from The Church. God bless you for a desire to share Jesus Christ and His Catholic Church. Isn’t it prudent to point toward someone who studied these things thoroughly;
and let the person decide, rather than keep going back and forth. Leave it up to The Holy Spirit, the only way he will be convinced. Ad hoc apologetics often doesn’t work.
Dr. David Adders (http://calvin2catholic.com/)
Is an excellent source.
He knows the history of The Church.
He knows the history of The Reformation; and studied it very well;
and departs from the polemics and propaganda started way back then.


So if you want to hear from a humble, intelligent, non-judgmental
intelligent person, who describes the actual goings on; he is a good source.
You may want to start here:


#321

No there is no passage in scripture that specifically states you can pray to Mary.

I think that is the answer you are looking for.


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