Protestant said praying to Mary isn’t in the bible


#322

The Rosary is scriptural:

The Archangel Gabriel said to Mary in scripture:
‘HAIL Mary, FULL OF GRACE, the Lord is with thee.’

Elizabeth said to Mary in scripture: ‘BLESSED are thou amongst women, and BLESSED is the fruit of your womb.’

These two lines make up the Hail Mary prayer in the Rosary.

The Book of Revelation states:
‘And Bowls were brought to God WHICH ARE THE PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS.’

Jesus Himself accepted help from an angel in scripture in the Garden of Gethsemane: ‘And an angel appeared and strengthened Him.’

Elijah and Moses also appeared to Jesus on Mount Tabor and spoke to Him to prepare Him for His upcoming Passion in Jerusalem.

If Jesus Himself accepted help from Simon the Cyrene, from Moses, Elijah and from an angel, in scripture, then we too can receive help from any person alive, saved in Heaven, or angel from Heaven.


#323

Scripture tells us we can invoke those in Heaven. We can ask them to pray for us, which is exactly what we ask Mary to do. For example (among others), Psalm 103 20-21 - Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will! Also Rev 5:8 as noted above.

So yes it is in the bible. True that Mary is not named specifically in this context but it is clearly implied.


#324

Why pick on Mary, as a Jewish person, when you already have stated you don’t believe in the New Testament as being of God, nor believe Jesus as being the Messiah,
Your root issue you need to deal with in catholicism, is:

  1. is Jesus the Messiah? Did He fulfill over 300+ jewish prophecies?
  2. is the New Testament a pile of lies, or is it 100% of God?

Constant Learner,
You have at times refused to quote evidence to prove your opinion, stating you don’t have to ‘prove’ your Jewish faith to anyone.

When people defend the catholic faith with quotes/ reliable reference sources, you tell them not to try and convince you of their catholic faith, because it is ‘insulting’ to convert someone.

If you had a brother on drugs or playing with fire, would you not warn him of the danger to save his life?
If you had a brother who was an aetheist/ living in sin, would you leave him in his errors, and not try to convert him to the faith, even at the risk of him losing God forever?

Why are you here then?
You will not prove your Jewish opinions with sources at times, nor give credence to Catholic sources that back up the catholic faith.

And the core issue behind all of this is:
You will not be able to believe one shred of catholicism _while you hold on to the Jewish opinion that Jesus Christ cannot be the Messiah because there is a First Coming and a Second Coming of the Christ._ (You say as a Jewish person, there can only be one coming of Christ, with an instant New Jerusalem)

If you cannot accept Jesus as the Messiah, whom 300 jewish scripture prophecies have been fulfilled by Him (fact),
then you will not be able to accept any catholic truths big or small,

Furthermore; as long as you hold onto the false Jewish belief that the New Testament was ‘a written pile of false lies,’. Then you will not be able to accept Jesus and the New Testament as a fulfillment of over 300 Jewish prophecies.


#325

Fundies love to try to spring gotchas like “if it’s not in the bible then you’re wrong”

It’s always fun to see their reaction when you ask them to find where in the bible does it say if you say the sinners prayer then you are eternally saved. :slight_smile:


#326

Yes, it does. There are many intercessory prayers in the bible. Given the belief of Catholics, I think Mary is a good choice for them when asking someone to intercede.


#327

Right, although Mary is not singled out as someone we can direct our prayers of intercession to, intercessory pray is biblical and we can ask anyone to pray for us, including Mary.

so prayers to Mary are really a non-issue biblically speaking.


#328

This is his new reply

Rosemarie Wall

Ima Be 100% real with you I’ve only read the first few lines of this comment and your one earlier i haven’t even clicked on , Not out of disrespect but pure “Eh” like seriously

After the “Mary was a meditator” part I low key felt a lil Ill like based on scripture how could you possibly say such a thing?

Iyou should be saying Go read scripture for yourself but I think you full well know any logical person won’t read the things taught in the Roman Catholic Church and any time you’ve quoted scripture it’s almost like you just gotten the answer from any RC at all aslong as it’s not from a Protestant which I find laughable being as it’s the Protestants always calling out the RC church for their umbilical beliefs but somehow the same Gurus who teach unbiblical things you turn to will tell you what scripture means Rather then just read scripture

and the main thing when you’ve quoted scripture is you will pick and choose any scripture to try make it fit your beliefs but any scripture you quoted not a single one actually speak of purgatory or anything else you try said it does , “Nothing impure shall enter heaven “ where was purgatory implied there? You just cherry picked what scripture you wanted to try make it fit your beliefs but it’s simply not what the word said

Base your beliefs on scripture rather then having a belief system before you read scripture then just trying to make it fit

and most other quoted scriptures you’ve said , I’ve told you to read a few verses before or after so you can actually get the context

Anyone can make the bible say what they want if they completely rip it out of context and I don’t think you’ve deliberately done that I just think your not spending time actually reading what it said rather cherry picking what you like and when things like “call no man Farther or master” come into place you completely disregard it as it goes against your beliefs or you will claim it meant something else then what it blatantly said

The bible doesn’t contradict itself so obviously when you get two scriptures what you think don’t add up you then always look into context and the context doesn’t match up with what the RC church does

Seriously have you noticed though?

You’ve had these beliefs before you talked of scripture and your taking scripture to fit your beliefs rather then setting your beliefs on what actually what scripture says

Ima Be real I probably won’t even click on the next response because again that “Mary is meditator of men to Jesus Christ” thing has still got me in disgust no disrespect to you I just simply fundamentally know never was such a thing spoken of in the bible and I would seriously question your church if that’s is what it being taught

P.S I don’t care for Pope Francis google it or something

  • and by this chat if anything you’ve only got me more in shock of how umbilical so many RC beliefs are :grimacing::grimacing: like the only way you could be apart of a cult like this is if you were born into it or never truly knew what it was about until you’re in it :grimacing::grimacing:

#329

Does the verse say earth?


#330

Your friend is a bully. Cut off all forms of communication with him. His obstinacy will prevent any meaningful dialogue.


#332

Well Rosie at least you are done now.

I usually find when you get the other person outright accusing you of doing what they are doing, basically cherry picking and reading out of context, then you are done. You can’t go any further because they have shut you out.

Before we finish I need to ask you one question. Did he ever respond to a single one of the explanations we gave you? Because it sure seemed like he just kept you running in circles from topic to topic.

For instance he claims

“Nothing impure shall enter heaven “ where was purgatory implied there?

Well from our point of view purgatory is a state of final purification in which Christ cleanses the saved of all impurity before entering heaven. So there is the implication plain as day. If you die with impurities Jesus cleanses you in Purgatory. Seems pretty straight forward and LOGICAL to me. So did he ever tell you what he believes this verse means? or did he spend all his time just telling you that you are wrong?

Don’t even get me started on the “call no man father” quote. Anyone who claims that this is a direct objection from Jesus to referring to a Priest as father just proves they don’t know the meaning of the phrase “reading the Bible in context”. To me this proves you are dealing with a person who “cherry picks” all day long. Notice how he right away accused you that your interpretation contradicts scripture. Well this is the smoke screen, once again he accused you of doing the very thing he was doing, this way it already gets everyone ignoring your response when you show that he is the one who is contradicting scripture here.

It’s a sad sad game they play. It’s fun at times, but I think it is time to move on.

God Bless


#333

I forwarded all his reply’s here it seems to me like he didn’t really read them all :roll_eyes:


#334

I think you should stop replying to him,since he’s not a genuine person who really seek the truth after so much answering.


#335

No he didn’t and that should tell you he has no interest whatsoever in learning more about you and your faith. Very cult like behavior and very common among fundies. They love to thump their chests and look down on those who challenge their misinformed beliefs especially about the Catholic faith. I find many (not all but many) of them don’t do it out of love for faith they do it out of some misplaced sense of superiority. That’s not exactly what Jesus taught. Believe me I know first hand how these arguments can go.

Just know that you’re totally right and he’s totally wrong and pray for him.


#336

2 Tim 2:15-16
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness.


#337

I told him “ I think I know more than you because if you knew more than me you wouldn’t be a Protestant”


#338

Great answer.
Do you know who I think has a lot in common with many fundies who have this attitude? The Pharisees in Jesus’s time. He had a lot to say about them and people like them.

You could take Luke 18:10-14 and Matt 23:23-26 and imagine Jesus is addressing this to many people not just those Pharisees.

Also John 5:39


#339

That is a really good answer. Are you a young person?

A friend told me once about people coming to her door, saying they knew many who left the Catholic Church to join theirs. My friend told them: “That’s too bad; if they really knew their Catholic faith, they would never leave it.”

Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman was an Anglican churchman for half his life. He was a brilliant scholar. The more he studied, the more he knew and discovered the truth about the Catholic Church, the more he knew he had to be part of the Church.


#340

Tell him that’s not even what the Catechism says. It teaches that we invoke Mary under the title “Mediatrix” (CCC 969). Just as we know that the saints can intercede for us and act as mediators of our prayers and I can act as a mediator by praying for you, Mary is the greatest intercessor aside from Jesus because of her undying faith and love of God. Jesus is the sole mediator of the New Covenent, not prayer.


#342

I once felt that way. No longer. It’s judgmental.


#343

In the Catholic faith, Jesus is G-d and equal to the Father? Why is he an intercessor. Can’t you pray directly to him as well as the Father?


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