Protestant said praying to Mary isn’t in the bible


#142

No I don’t see it as hatred at all. I’m glad to read your replies. Having lived a life built on doctrine, I find it only mildly helpful. What interests me more are a person’s true beliefs. If you genuinely believe what you write I greatly respect you. So many folks declare a faith but live contrary to it.
I’m doing the RCIA at the moment so these conversations are immensely helpful. I know the Bible relatively well although I don’t know the Catholic books (I do like the New Jerusalem Bible). Thanks for bearing with me.


#143

There’s only one other thing I would say, be confident, God, Mary and Jesus are strong enough to defend themselves you don’t always need to do it for them.


#144

Ask him to find a verse that says all doctrine must be found in the Bible. He’ll probably cite Scripture that says all Scripture is God-breathed (sure, but that doesn’t establish Scripture as the only authority) and not to add or take away from His words (where does it say that His words would only be in Scripture?), but there is not a single verse in the Bible that says the Bible/Scripture is the main authority of doctrine. Scripture is helpful and inspired, definitely, but not the be all end all of authority. What he’s promoting is actually nowhere in the Bible, so it’s funny that he accuses you of believing in things not found in Scripture.

Bonus points if you ask him what the pillar of truth is. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

EDIT: It’s also rich that he complains that Scripture isn’t used to defend the Rosary. The Hail Mary, as you know, is from Scripture, the Our Father is from Scripture, and all of the mysteries are from Scripture (the Assumption and Crowning of Mary aren’t as obvious, I’ll grant you, but still there). Does he even know what a rosary is?


#145

The ‘Hail Mary,’ is almost verbatim of verses in Luke.
The Rosary itself, is a Meditation on The Incarnation of Jesus Christ,
moments in His Life; and applying to to our own.
_
The Angels and Saints are living with Jesus Christ, and obviously pray for us.
God allows us to petition Jesus Christ through anyone who prays for us.
Personally, I think of these prayers addressed to the ‘Branches’ on ‘The Vine,’
to the ‘Vine Keeper,’ as a way the God gives honor to those who honor Him;
but a different way in His Omniscience of saying, ‘God of so and so ‘Branch,’
have mercy on us.’
These prayers do not attempt to engage someone who has gone to be with The Lord
in conversation. But they are like, if you with Christ in Eternal Glory were standing next
to us, pray for us. Since they are part of The Cloud of Witnesses, also in Hebrews,
God receives the supplication because they always participate with Christ’s Mediation;
through Grace.
It is kind of like thinking of a loved one who passed away; and exclaiming
in a time of need, ‘dad, help me.’ It reminds you of the dad’s help in life.
We get reminded of the ways a Saint cooperated with God’s Grace, and try to be like that. — They have no Power; but do appeal to Christ who has The Power of Mediation.
__
“Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the judge of all men, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.” - Hebrews 12:22-24


#146

Maybe another option would be to suggest to him that his interpretation of Scripture is not his own but that of the faith community that he’s part of?


#147

I will let him know right now thanks for all your help everyone x


#148

He might then retort that the Holy Spirit is his interpreter and denominations, though it would depend on his background.


#149

Poor Protestants. If they could only fully grasp just who it is they’re rejecting here. As someone once said, “a christian without the Virgin is an orphan!!!


#150

This struck a cord with me :sob:


#151

This is his new reply

I was a atheist I never believed in God then I started to follow RC doctrine because I didn’t know scripture yet then I started noticing what RC church beliefs doesn’t add up with Gods word

Sweetness I’ll say this GODS WORD is the authority

The Torah was the Jews and that was the divine word of God then when Jesus came the New Testament was added and you said you believe in Jesus so we could agree the Old Testament and new are the Devine word of God

In the beginning the word was with God and was God ,

Anything out of the bible is made of Mans assumption

I think you would have a hard time proving Gods word is outside of Scripture

Jesus when talking of history only referred to the Old Testament no other sources and all Old Testament events were accurate No other nation had Gods word the canaanites or the Babylon’s

I would still say if it’s not Gods word as in which Jesus claimed the Torah to be why believe any other doctrine right?

To do what you just said why not believe Mormons when they say you will become God because Jospeh smith said it in the 1800’s or not Believe Islam that Muhammad was actually speaking Gods word?

I understand your views but the more I focussed on the bible and forgot everything else I just couldn’t agree with the Bible and what’s preached in the RC church because I never found they were adding up


#152

Actually it’s quite easy to prove that "Gods word is outside of Scripture ". Scripture itself says so. It says God’s Word is not only the written word. It is quite explicit.

If he’s referring to the name Yeshua and is criticizing Christmas and Easter - then it’s starting to sound like you’ve run into a Sacred Name sect member. SN is a cult and an offshoot of Messianic Judaism, which in itself is a sect of Protestantism. We all acknowledge our faith’s Jewish roots but they also try to frame bits and pieces of Christianity with fundamental Judaism. Because they do not believe in the same Christ that we Christians do, I don’t consider them Christians and I believe that Paul was speaking to these people when he wrote his strongly worded letter to the Galatians, especially Gal 5:1-4.

There’s a topic on this here:


#153

So his beliefs are man’s assumption? Why bother to believe in what he says is true then because it’s all man’s assumption?

Simple. We have a Church established by God to deal with that, which, as Scripture itself says, is the pillar of truth.

I don’t think he does.

Like what? The Rosary that he doesn’t seem to understand?


#154

I love being able to logically compare Old to New, and exactly why Jesus came to us. My 14 year old grandson often makes derogatory comments about Christians (he is searching for answers, I am praying he finds his way), ie: Christians who claim stoning a gay person is in the Old Testament. First of all, I tell him “how can they claim to be Christian if they are not following Jesus’s example?” They are fringe Christians who have lost their way! I tell him Jesus came to expand on the Old Testament and to show us the new way. Thank you for posting this video, very insightful.


#155

Not so, is the Word of God true ? yes John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.

yes, i wish we all could be united to Christ but no one could be as close and united like the Mother of God here the verse quoted was about Mary united in spirited with Jesus one in mind and spirit Mother Mary being the Mother of God, know him more than any human can ever know who suffered and accepted the will of god and offered up everything united with Christ to the Father 1 Corinthians 2:16 “For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. here Mary was one with the mind with Christ

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever.

John 9:31 says we know that God does not listen to sinners, but he does listen to one who worships him and obeys his will. Which Mother did, co-operated by doing His Will in Luke 1:38. Lk 1:28, 30 – angel: “full of grace, found favor with God Lk 1:42 – Elizabeth: “most blessed among women” Lk 1:48 – Mary: “all generations will call me blessed” Mother of God Lk 1:43 – Elizabeth calls her “mother of my Lord” = God.

Isaiah 7:14 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel.


#156

Does anyone know what oath the pope takes? He’s now telling lies about the pope calling him the Antichrist he sad this is the oath the pope takes I want to correct him does anyone know the real oath that the pope takes he also called the pope the “dope of Rome” I must have deleted the picture as I can’t find it but it was some sort of jesuit oath I can’t really remember it but it was a vow to kill people who disagree


#157

Its the Word of God not assumptions Psalm 118 was quoted as everything in the life of the Mother of God is marvelous Revelation11: 19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant =(The Ark of the covenant Mother Mary) was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

The Woman (Mother Mary) and the Dragon = satan

Revelation 12:1-2 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman (Mother Mary) clothed with the sun (Glory Wisdom 7:26 For she (Mother Mary) is a reflection of eternal light=Jesus John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.”, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness.), with the moon under her feet (Power given to Her in the Church By Jesus on the Cross the last Treasure and the most important before his death only then he could finishes the will of God ), and on her head a crown of twelve stars (12 Apostles and the 12 Tribes of Israel) (Queen of Heaven also Co -redeemer). 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pangs, in the agony of giving birth.

Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean will enter Heaven, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. But when Jesus is born she had to be without Original Sin a pure vessel to contain Jesus in the womb… Lord Jesus (GOD) had to be born in a women who is sinless. Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden locked is my sister, my bride, a garden locked, a fountain sealed. Song of Solomon 6:9 My dove(Mary), my perfect one, is only one, the darling of her mother, flawless (sinless) to her that bore her. The maidens saw her and called her happy; the queens and concubines also, and they praised her. Song of Solomon 6:4 You (Mary) are beautiful as Tirzah, my love, comely as Jerusalem, terrible as an army with banners. Song of Solomon 6:10 “Who is this (Mary)that looks forth like the dawn, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terrible as an army with banners?” Said by the Angles who were all in Awe of Mary a when they seen her in the Empyrean Heaven and acclaimed so


#158

Complete fabrication. See this topic:


#159

The Jesuit kill oath, if I remember correctly, is some lie from a Jack Chick track, so, completely bogus. If he retorts that it came from a Jesuit priest, the Jesuits have no record of him ever being ordained.

As for the Papal oath:
http://www.ewtn.com/library/liturgy/zlitur397.htm

“This alleged Papal Coronation oath has been used by several such groups as “proof” that the Church has abandoned the true faith… A Wikipedia article on this topic points out, “The only historical source claimed for this ‘Papal Oath’ is Migne’s Patrologia Latina , referring, it can be supposed, to volume 105, columns 40-44. Patrologia Latina , 105, columns 9-188 reproduces, with notes and commentary, the full text of Garnier’s 1680 edition of the Liber Diurnus Romanorum Pontificum . The article in The Catholic Encyclopedia on this book states that Garnier’s edition ‘is very inaccurate, and contains arbitrary alterations of the text’; it describes as the first good edition the one published by Eugène de Rozière in 1869. Later editions have been able to take into account not only the oldest surviving manuscript, which is preserved in the Vatican but also two other manuscripts of slightly later date, which were rediscovered, one in 1889, the other in 1937. The Liber Diurnus Romanorum Pontificum is in fact a ‘miscellaneous collection of ecclesiastical formularies used in the papal chancery until the 11th century.’ It then fell into disuse and was soon forgotten and lost, until a manuscript containing it was discovered in the 17th century. Its rediscovery in the 17th century caused surprise precisely because the text declared acceptance of the condemnations of the Sixth General Council, which were directed also against Pope Honorius I. In the opinion of one writer, the oath had the effect of confirming that an ecumenical council could condemn a Pope for open heresy and that Honorius was justly condemned.””

I’m not going to post the text for the full oath, as it’s mentioned in the article I linked.


#160

Jeremiah 3:15 “‘And I will give you shepherds (Popes) after my own heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.

The Catholic Church follows and GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT and JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF THROUGH HIS TRUE CHURCH AND THE POPE who stands in the person of Christ. Matthew 16:16-18 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. A solid promise of Jesus. Psalm 12:6 The promises of the Lord are promises that are pure, silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times.

Catholic Church states traditions as the orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”; 2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm
ARTICLE 2
THE TRANSMISSION OF DIVINE REVELATION

74 God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”:29 that is, of Christ Jesus.30 Christ must be proclaimed to all nations and individuals, so that this revelation may reach to the ends of the earth:

God graciously arranged that the things he had once revealed for the salvation of all peoples should remain in their entirety, throughout the ages, and be transmitted to all generations.31
I. THE APOSTOLIC TRADITION

75 "Christ the Lord, in whom the entire Revelation of the most high God is summed up, commanded the apostles to preach the Gospel, which had been promised beforehand by the prophets, and which he fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips. In preaching the Gospel, they were to communicate the gifts of God to all men. This Gospel was to be the source of all saving truth and moral discipline."32

In the apostolic preaching. . .

76 In keeping with the Lord’s command, the Gospel was handed on in two ways:

orally “by the apostles who handed on, by the spoken word of their preaching, by the example they gave, by the institutions they established, what they themselves had received - whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or whether they had learned it at the prompting of the Holy Spirit”;33

in writing “by those apostles and other men associated with the apostles who, under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit, committed the message of salvation to writing”.34

. . . continued in apostolic succession


#161

That’s something that sounds like it would come from Chick. His “Jesuit” reference Alberto Rivera was proven to be a con man.


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