Protestant said praying to Mary isn’t in the bible


#162

Indeed. This person she’s talking with loves her so much that he cites lies from known and baseless anti-Catholic propaganda and calls one of the most respected figures in her faith (the Pope) a “dope” out of Christian charity. Some stuff!


#163

Ask him to prove what should and shouldn’t be in the Bible and then ask him where it says in the Bible that everything we need to know is in the Bible.

Finally ask him how the early Christians could know they had things right when they didn’t have a Bible. Afterall, they only had the successors of the Apostles and a few letters.


#164

The Jesuit oath is a lot of nonsense that claims Jesuits take this oath below:-

do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants’ heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever.

It’s worth mentioning that it first appears as a claim at a time of heightened sectarian tension in England and the bloke who claimed it was real was later prosecuted as a forger.


#165

It was truly Mary’s Free will to accept or reject god’s will,and she said yes Lk 1:38 .what do you mean? by according to Tradition only choosing to protect Mary’s freewill from concupiscence.?


#166

This is his new reply he’s smarter than the others

I would agree Gods word is outside of scripture if your implying the universe and all he has created then being as paper is wood then Gods word is written on the very thing he spoke into existence but if your implying Gods word is outside in the sense of other faiths or beliefs that they hold Gods word and his “Truth” then I would disagree

No my argument corresponds with scripture don’t take my word for it take God’s but it’s man’s assumption to say something is of God when there’s no support to verify it through the word of God again why would you simply believe something that is not told of by or God telling us through any prophets?

I don’t know where Easter and Christmas ties into this…

Well not Jesus or any prophets spoke of the Rosary of even implied such a thing neither is the prayers in-sighting the rosary “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking” Matthew 6:7

that’s my thought on scripted prayers by the rosary

some pagan beliefs has their own version of the rosary , Islam , Hinduism , Buddhism etc.

why is the Popes called “Holy Farther”?
Jesus made it clear to call no man Farther nor teacher for he alone is the head of the Church the only answer I’ve had from a RC is in Genisis 45:8 “So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt”

but the problem is that this was used an expression as to say God has given Jospeh authority over Egypt and he wrote and referred to himself as Farther but in Matthew 23:9 when Jesus said call no man Farther he was talking in the spiritual sense not in material sense as your biological Dad or when God said to Abraham “I will make you the Farther of many nations “ there’s a difference between the materialistic sense and spiritual in which God was claiming he is the head of the church Not man then the Pope receives a title Holy Farther? to finish up on Matthew 23 (this is Jesus talking to the Jewish leaders of the temple but I think it corresponds to what Jesus is implying to anyone)

“ Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in”

How do you know it’s established by God if you’ve basically told me you have no problem receiving insight to Gods will through other sources then the bible?

but I would love to hear about how purgatory is biblical and if it is then Jesus is a liar because he said he died for all our sins and purgatory implies you still have to pay for some

Would love your thoughts on such
I genuinely am curious to why you believe what you do


#167

We already supplied scripture and he either changed the topic or used ad hominems.


#168

you mean that only prophets speak for God? what about the Apostles? didn’t they speak for God, didn’t they pass their authority on to their successors? Of course if he believes that God is speaking to him through scripture then everyone who reads scripture should all come to the same interpretation.

repeating scripture isn’t vain. Scripted prayers are biblical. The Psalms are scripted prayers. Show me in the Bible where you can’t pray scripture more than one time in sequence. Show me in the Bible where it says you can’t reflect on the life of Christ in prayer.

beads are useful for many purposes. Would he not use a abacus because it was invented by pagans? Early Christians used beads to pray the Pslams. Made it easier to not loose count on the 150 ‘scripted prayers’.

‘Holy’ having to do with God
‘Father’ having to do with being a patriarch.

But this admonishment from Jesus doesn’t mean you can’t call someone a father or teacher. It is about giving to that person the due that belongs to God as your Divine Father. A good example is the leader of the North Koreans. He takes on the ‘fatherly’ position that is rightfully due to God.

The Pope doesn’t do this at all. He is not taking the place of God the Father.

and this is the context with which Catholics see the Pope he is the servant of the servants of God.

The Pope doesn’t exalt himself. He is duly elected by the successors of the Apostles to fill the seat of Peter. This is also biblical… see Acts.

The Pope is in the Bible. He’s really the Chief Steward of the Kingdom. Read the Old Testament where it talks about the Chief Steward who is given the Keys to the Kingdom. The Chief Steward watches over the kingdom while the king is away. That is why Jesus gave keys to Peter. He made him his chief steward and that is why we still have a chief steward today.


#169

he has a wrong understanding of what Purgatory is. Jesus died for our sins but we must still be cleansed before entering heaven. Because nothing impure can enter heaven. Ask him if he pure right now. He should read 1 Cor 3:13-15


#170

God’s Word is not only the written word. It is also oral word not written in scripture. Scripture itself says so explicitly. Jesus Himself is the Word in the flesh. John 1:14-18.

It was the “Man’s assumption” graphic that you posted above. I found that graphic online and it was labelled as coming from Messianic Judaism. This is what Messianic Jews believe.

Clearly he has very little understanding of what Matthew 6:7 is. The Rosary is not vain repetition. Repeating prayers does not mean vain repetition. There are many examples of scripture (such as Rev 4:8) where prayers are repeated many times. Even Jesus did this in the Garden before his capture.

Red herring and irrelevant.

Typical protestant objection that is easily dismissed. See below.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/call-no-man-holy-father

There are plenty of references to purgatory in scripture.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-purgatory-in-the-bible


#171

Or Rev 21:10-27 especially verse 27


#172

Could you kindly explain to me how Mary is equated to the Ark of the Covenant as I’ve never really understood the link. I can understand the metaphor but linking it to Mary seems a bit of a stretch.


#173

There was a video posted here about it it’s really amazing


#174

Just came across this for anyone else that is interested.


#175

While I agree that no one should bear false witness, I think many Catholics assume non-Catholic Christians are lying when they make such claims. Most honestly don’t know any better. They believe what their teachers/writers tell them is Scriptural & factual about Catholics to their understanding of the faith & its history.

I am a former Protestant, & I can say with honesty that, more often than not, when a non-Catholic Christian makes such claims against Catholics, it’s because this is what they’ve been taught as truth: this is what they understand of the Scriptures about Catholicism’s teachings/practices. It has nothing to do with trying to lie about Catholics - unless they honestly know differently (Jack Chick comes to mind), & I haven’t found this to be the case. These Christians are zealous for their faith & will denounce anything they perceive as being anti-Christian in their understanding of it.

That’s why it’s important to know our faith & to know where to show them differently Scripturally & historically. Most swallow what they’ve been told about Catholics without ever having done the research themselves to know any better, so it’s up to us to extend them some grace, be gentle with correction, & point them to the truth. Some will be open to this truth - others, not. It’s up to us to bring that truth to them regardless & to discern their level of openness with the Holy Spirit’s guidance. What they do with that message depends on God’s grace, so prayer should lead such endeavors.


#176

I don’t disagree that God Created Mary and protected her freewill from choosing evil.
But it is a mystery why God didn’t do that for Adam and Eve.
Mary had freewill;
so those who try to just explain the problem of evil that God can only give freewill
with concupiscence with all the unearned suffering, especially to children as a result;
allowed to happen are missing something.


#177

Francis this is his new reply :weary:
I have to put it in 2 half’s as it’s too big one sec he also used that pic of the pope

i apologise my mistake I think you full well knew what I was implying and that I meant people of scripture in that sense as being as Jesus is God I would assume he would know which people to pick to carry his message ,

The Book of Psalms is a book of 150 songs poems and prayers (73) were King David’s
(12) Asaph , (11) the sons of Koran (2) heman and Ethan Solomon and Moses (3) and (44) with unknown authors , No it’s not a book of prayers but prayers are in there it’s mostly poems but these are the songs poems and prayers of the Israelites after the exile in Babylon

“Amen” simply meant let it be or it is so but my issue isn’t with a prayer guide there’s a difference between psalms and what you see going on with RC , “Hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with thee” that’s how the vein prayers tend to go in the RC church not a prayer actually from the bible or if a prayer is from the bible it tends to have a “Roman Catholic twist” added to it and why are you praying to other then God???
“Early Christians had beads”
No no they didn’t I don’t see how you could possibly prove that Christians done that and even still that would be much different between psalms and praying the rosary

Actually it means exactly what it says your not allowed to call man Farther or teacher Rabbi was a Jewish word for teacher Matthew 23:7-8 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren”

I don’t care for Korea we are talking about the bible here and that doesn’t explain what scripture means but what you want it to mean using men as a example

Pope Francis net worth in 2018 was 73 million I don’t know about you but that’s a real strange servant you got there

Peter was not the Kickstarter of the Roman Catholic Church he died long before the law was passed to tolerate Christianity in 313 ad

and I could care less for Peter, Jesus is the head of my church not any man Peter isn’t any more holy then me so I could care less don’t get me wrong he started a group gathering (basically a church) but he wasn’t the head of the Church Christ is but in the Roman church it’s the pope/whatever priest you have then it’s Christ and I think any church started back then would’ve been much different then the Roman Catholic Church you see today

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#178

I recommend reading the rest through 1st Corinthians 3:15-17
I still fail to see how that implies purgatory? Where was the I need to be cleansed of my sins because I’m impure and I’m doing so that needs to happen before I got to heaven??
Jesus cleansed me of my sins of purgatory is real then Jesus is a liar 1 John 1:7
“If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin” cleansed meaning without stain meaning I can’t be in purgatory is Jesus truly forgave and cleansed me of sin and I have no need to go under “Purification”

Jesus was the word and the word became flesh and 600 years before hand Isaiah had prophecy’s of him and all throughout the Old Testament there were over 300 prophecies of the messiah but Jesus was talked about , But you are implying something completely different when you say the word of God outside of scripture and I think it’s faulty what your saying and trying to change by what you mean by Gods word outside of scripture Jesus is very much in scripture …

“I found that graphic online”
I genuinely genuinely don’t have a clue what you are talking about

That link you sent they were quoting the very scripture I said they try give as evidence and I “Easily” dismissed that read what I said about that part again because them RC have said nothing different and literally made no valid point

And Revelation 21:27 I totally agree with the scripture don’t get me wrong I don’t see how you possibly get purgatory from that like seriously where is the idea of purgatory from there?

and yup Pope Francis really looks like a servant doesn’t he :sweat_smile: totally not basically being worshipped Sarcasm


#179


#180

That’s the pic he used at the end


#181

Ancient tradition holds Mary died around A.D. 40.

Pauls epistle to the Romans was written around A.D. 58.

Mary was a VERY common name in 1st century Jewish circles.

It’s almost certain the Mary St. Paul says to greet in Romans is NOT Mary the Mother of God.


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