Protestant service last night.


#1

Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are “caught up in this system”, and “the system isn’t going to save you”. “dont need a church, just a relationship”. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I wasn’t really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn’t take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn’t out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this


#2

The Bible is a Catholic book. No where in teh Bible does it say "only use the Bible as your basis". There were 400 years before the Bible where Catholicism laid down its traditions, creeds and faith. We are the only Church founded by Christ. Be sure of that.

He's just a silly little man with the wrong end of the stick, which he is waving around trying to scare you.

Protestantism is a heresy.

I would have walked out. I went to a few Protestant services years ago, and one was of those weird little "churches" started by some nut job. Frankly, I found it empty and unfullfilling with a great big helping of historical and bibical ignorance.

Perhaps take the time to research and write a letter to this pastor outlaying where he is grossly wrong. It will give you the chance to see the history of the Church, the true Chrsitian theology of the Church and help you understand why this man is wrong.


#3

As a matter of interest, when you said that 40 - 50 put up their hands as having had a Catholic upbringing, that was out of how many in the congregation (roughly) ?


#4

I’m a convert to Catholism from evangelical Protestantism.

Depending on how confident you are with your faith and comfortable with using the Bible as a reference, I would consider calling the pastor and setting up a lunch appointment. Tell him that you are a Catholic, that you were in attendance at the worship service, and that you would like to share your personal testimony.

All too often, Protestant pastors don’t actually KNOW any Catholics who are strong in their faith. It would be good if he could put a face on what he is so freely criticizing.

Hopefully he is aware of the Catholic zeal about pro-life work, and hopefully, that can be a “common ground” between the two of you. Many Protestants admire Catholic pro-life work and aspire to be as enthusiastic.

If you are not strong in your faith and comfortable with using the Bible, then don’t try this. It will be disturbing for you, and give that pastor more fodder for future sermons.

If you go to lunch with him, I wouldn’t bother to quote any sources other than the Bible, and stick with the “Protestant” books. Protestants like this pastor do not consider any other source authoritative, so they won’t care what the Early Church Fathers, the Catechism, etc. say. They also consider the Deuterocanonical books “apocryphal.”

One more thing–if you are a woman, there is a good chance that the pastor will not accept your invitation to go to lunch. These days, many male pastors avoid meetings with women unless another woman is present, or unless the woman’s husband, father, brother, or boyfriend is present. I don’t blame him–it’s really setting himself up, and setting the woman up, for accusations. Many male pastors will not meet behind closed doors at their office with a woman, but will leave the door wide open.

So perhaps if are a woman, and you decide that you are up for the challenge of going to lunch with him, then find a friend (male or female) or a male relative to go with you, and tell the pastor that you and a friend would like to invite him to lunch to share personal testimonies.

Good luck to you.


#5

I would have walked out. I went to a few Protestant services years ago, and one was of those weird little "churches" started by some nut job. Frankly, I found it empty and unfullfilling with a great big helping of historical and bibical ignorance.


#6

[quote="Ron_Obvious, post:1, topic:278074"]
Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. *** I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical.*** Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are "caught up in this system", and "the system isn't going to save you". "dont need a church, just a relationship". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wasn't really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn't take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn't out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this

[/quote]

Favor to who? Were you invited? Sounds like the preacher was expecting you and fashioned his 'bible study' in a way to proselytize a Catholic, you.
Also, and I know this is not going to be PC, but why did you feel the need to be "ecumenical"? Do you think members of his congregation attend a Catholic Mass to be "ecumenical"?
Ecumenism to these people involves Catholics converting to their church and philosophy.
Being ecumenical is not about exposing ourselves to error.
Sorry to be blunt but.......


#7

[quote="Cat, post:4, topic:278074"]
I'm a convert to Catholism from evangelical Protestantism.

Depending on how confident you are with your faith and comfortable with using the Bible as a reference, I would consider calling the pastor and setting up a lunch appointment. Tell him that you are a Catholic, that you were in attendance at the worship service, and that you would like to share your personal testimony.

All too often, Protestant pastors don't actually KNOW any Catholics who are strong in their faith. It would be good if he could put a face on what he is so freely criticizing.

Hopefully he is aware of the Catholic zeal about pro-life work, and hopefully, that can be a "common ground" between the two of you. Many Protestants admire Catholic pro-life work and aspire to be as enthusiastic.

If you are not strong in your faith and comfortable with using the Bible, then don't try this. It will be disturbing for you, and give that pastor more fodder for future sermons.

If you go to lunch with him, I wouldn't bother to quote any sources other than the Bible, and stick with the "Protestant" books. Protestants like this pastor do not consider any other source authoritative, so they won't care what the Early Church Fathers, the Catechism, etc. say. They also consider the Deuterocanonical books "apocryphal."

One more thing--if you are a woman, there is a good chance that the pastor will not accept your invitation to go to lunch. These days, many male pastors avoid meetings with women unless another woman is present, or unless the woman's husband, father, brother, or boyfriend is present. I don't blame him--it's really setting himself up, and setting the woman up, for accusations. Many male pastors will not meet behind closed doors at their office with a woman, but will leave the door wide open.

So perhaps if are a woman, and you decide that you are up for the challenge of going to lunch with him, then find a friend (male or female) or a male relative to go with you, and tell the pastor that you and a friend would like to invite him to lunch to share personal testimonies.

Good luck to you.

[/quote]

While I don't have the experience you have personally I think it might be better to start out with a letter or an email. Say I'm Catholic and I'm very strong in my faith, and then start to address the things that you believe are wrong with his view on the Catholic Church. Do it in the most charitable way possible. Personally while a lunch talk could do wonders, I think its to much to soon. I think after you start to have a conversation with this guy over email or over letter, or maybe you even give him a number to call, then you have lunch with him. What it does is you show your position and you allow him to decide whether to continue the conversation or not. I could see you trying to trick the guy into having lunch and then dropping this I'm Catholic on him.

Just my 2 cents, I could be wrong.

But also this is a sign that there is something bad happening in our church and that is we are not doing a good job of keeping our faithful in our pews. If you don't do anything with the pastor, then you should pray first that those who are in the congregation see the light especially those who are fallen away catholics. Also that the Church may effectively evangelize the faithful both Catholic and Non Catholic. I don't want to judge or anything but I worry sometimes while these people probably have very good intentions and they trying to point to Christ, it worries me that pastors like this are unknowingly leading these people down a path to hell. Now that may not be the case, but they are atleast leading them down a path that is based off a counterfeit truth.

pray for these souls, and if you have the courage and you know how to do it in a CHARITABLE way then contact the pastor.

God Bless


#8

[quote="Ron_Obvious, post:1, topic:278074"]
Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are "caught up in this system", and "the system isn't going to save you". "dont need a church, just a relationship". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wasn't really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn't take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn't out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this

[/quote]

I am not sure if I would lhave walked out but it would certainly have been hard not to but I would not go back. Unfortunately I heard statistics once that said a good majority of those in attendance at non-denomination evangelical churches are Catholics, especially those poorly catechised. It is a sad thing. I am an ex-evangelical (Catholic revert) and heard all this against the Catholic church, also. It is very strongly preached and very dangerous to our souls. If you went as a favor to a friend I would maybe explain to her or him why you don't want to go back and maybe correct your friend on what they heard while there because they are probably believing what he preached. It is a very dangerous place for a Catholic to be.


#9

[quote="paperwight66, post:3, topic:278074"]
As a matter of interest, when you said that 40 - 50 put up their hands as having had a Catholic upbringing, that was out of how many in the congregation (roughly) ?

[/quote]

About 1/3 of the crowd had a catholic upbringing. I really dont know if the pastor knew there was going to be any devout catholics there, and frankly dont know that it would matter to him. If the sample was accurate, that means roughly 1/3 of their congregation are former catholics. Certainly sounds like he was trying to reinforce their decision by slandering the Catholic faith.


#10

[quote="JustaServant, post:6, topic:278074"]
Favor to who? Were you invited? Sounds like the preacher was expecting you and fashioned his 'bible study' in a way to proselytize a Catholic, you.
Also, and I know this is not going to be PC, but why did you feel the need to be "ecumenical"? Do you think members of his congregation attend a Catholic Mass to be "ecumenical"?
Ecumenism to these people involves Catholics converting to their church and philosophy.
Being ecumenical is not about exposing ourselves to error.
Sorry to be blunt but.......

[/quote]

Its ok, JustaServant. I think I know where you're coming from. The favor was to someone close to me who did not want to go alone. The pastor had no idea who I was or if I would even be there. And yes, this person has, and will attend mass with me on occasion. And I certainly agree about not exposing myself to error (hence my misgivings for even going, which were confirmed)


#11

Plenty of protestant denominations are actually catholic. They are all Christian.

so it be wise to have a chat to the pastor and get to know, so that you can sort out your thoughts a bit more rather than just guess work.

It can be hard to to break what you have previously been taught.

Sadly too many change over to other denominations within Christianity because they have fallen out with the specific church over something.

I can be hard to understand where he is coming from because you have no background of what he is saying. Some one else walking into RC church would experience very similar to you in that it be natural to think that the priest/pastor is wrong because it would sound wrong and unfamiliar to their ears. That doesn’t make it wrong. plus if we have gone with misgivings then we are more than likely be hearing the faults too easily.

If you really want to understand the denomination that you attended then ask that pastor about what he said before assuming and letting others on here guide you into thinking he is wrong when they weren’t actually there to hear him and we all know what it like trying to report back accurately on something and is even harder when we have no real idea what has been said. So if you really want to know, contact the pastor and not split hairs about the differences here please:)


#12

I would have wanted to walk out but I certainly would have advised your friend to find a different place to go and why I felt that way. I really dislike Catholic bashing by pastors. I just don't get why one has to bash another's faith/religion to defend their own.

By calling out those who had Catholic upbringing...yikes that kinda stuff is hatred and seems to show the pastor's lack of knowing his congregation. I'd go so far as to say that's not even a Christian place of worship.


#13

[quote="vera_dicere, post:2, topic:278074"]
There were 400 years before the Bible where Catholicism laid down its traditions, creeds and faith.

[/quote]

Just want to point out that all the books of the Bible existed and were in use before the year 400, as you say.


#14

[quote="Ron_Obvious, post:1, topic:278074"]
Ok, so I went to a Non-denominational service last night. I was doing it as a favor and trying to be somewhat ecumenical. Knowing where they stand, I had serious misgivings about attending. Now I know why.

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are "caught up in this system", and "the system isn't going to save you". "dont need a church, just a relationship". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wasn't really surprised, but I was upset by it.

When talking about the church at Sardis, he immediately compared it to Protestantism. Honestly, I know I didn't take in all he said here, because I was so upset that he was using the pulpit to attack Holy Mother Church. However, I do remember that when he spoke negatively of Protestantism, it was mainly the Lutheran, Anglican, or Methodist churches (probably because they werent enough like his church). Of course he only had good things to say about his own brand of Protestantism.

The pastor asked for a show of hands before the sermon of how many had a Catholic upbringing. About 40-50 people raised their hand. I wanted to walk out in the middle, but I didn't out of respect for who I was there with. All I wanted to do afterward was go to Adoration.

A lot was on my mind afterward. I know a lot of what this preacher said was nonsense. Should I have walked out? Should I not have gotten so upset? This pastor was using his position and attacking the Catholic church as idolatrus and false. Not sure whether it was ignorance or malice. It seems as though my misgivings about attending were confirmed.

I welcome any thoughts on this

[/quote]

Precisely why I believe many non-denominational churches are the most dangerous. Full of errors,lies and perversions of the Truth. More important,their pastors claim to be so Bible-believing,yet what gets me how the "do not bear false witness" ever escaped them? :confused:


#15

[quote="Calgar, post:13, topic:278074"]
Just want to point out that all the books of the Bible existed and were in use before the year 400, as you say.

[/quote]

Yeah as were many other books which did not make the cut. Just because the books in our current Bible existed does not prove the Bible alone as many non-Catholics want to present.


#16

#17

As someone else said there were many other books floating around at the time, also. How did they come to the decision of what books should be in the New Testament and what ones shouldn’t. Catholics led by the Holy Spirit. It didn’t just happen, it wasn’t like here are the books we all use. There was much confusion. It took prayer and Holy Spirit guiding to decide which books to include and which ones not.


#18

[quote="Diana_Catherine, post:17, topic:278074"]
As someone else said there were many other books floating around at the time, also. How did they come to the decision of what books should be in the New Testament and what ones shouldn't. Catholics led by the Holy Spirit. It didn't just happen, it wasn't like here are the books we all use. There was much confusion. It took prayer and Holy Spirit guiding to decide which books to include and which ones not.

[/quote]

Precisely! Just because the current books existed,does not mean they were all binded into one volume and organized.


#19

Is the person who brought you a regular at this place? If so, have the conversation with THAT person, not necessarily the pastor. This pastor is presenting bigotry and misinformation from the pulpit gussied up as education. It is the basic duty of any teacher to be sure that what they are teaching is true. If he is preaching falsehoods about the catholic church that could be easily disproved by basic research..., well, Jesus had some things about millstones to say about such people.... :(


#20

[quote="Ron_Obvious, post:1, topic:278074"]

The sermon was on Revelation Chapter 2:18-3:5, specifically the the churches of Thyatria and Sardis. The pastor proceeded to say the church of Thyatria represented the Catholic church, talking about all of the good the Catholic church has done in the world. Then, quoting the passages addressed to the churches of Thyatria, especially v 20-21, proceeded to talk about idolatry and false teachings. He then mentioned purgatory, confession to a priest, and the Mass itself, all as being unbiblical. He kept talking about how people are "caught up in this system", and "the system isn't going to save you". "dont need a church, just a relationship". I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wasn't really surprised, but I was upset by it.

[/quote]

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 5:11-12[/BIBLEDRB]

[BIBLEDRB]1 Peter 4:14[/BIBLEDRB]


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