Suppose someone comes to your Church and yell these words to you.
“Protestant worship the ceiling of the Church because they raise their hands up to the ceiling. You idol worshippers! You shall worship the Lord God alone!”
Of course you would think how ridicules this charge is. It is foolish. This is exactly how we Catholics feel when Non-Catholic Christians charged that we are idol worshippers. To those who insist that we put Mary and the saints above God, you better get that out of your mind.
You make an excellent point, Manny. I feel the Protestants and all the others know very well that we are not idol worshipers and what not. How else would they justify their own religions and keep their flock.
Catholics don’t need to resort to those types of tactics because we KNOW what we have in our Beautiful Catholic Church. We are the most fortunate people in the world whether we know it or not. To be Catholic is to know ALL the truth and the FULLNESS of the Holy Spirit.
Catholics don’t perscribe to these tactics??? You’re kidding right? I have been called a bible worshipper amoung other things not only here but other places. It happens on BOTH sides. I am not sure what the purpose of this thread is except to try to get people to start whining about who has it worse and what side gets the most hits when it comes to verbal abuse about their beliefs.
I said it on another thread and I will say it here… Suck it up, turn the other cheek, and live your life according to what you believe God’s will is. Life is too short to believe that everyone is out to get you… *sigh… :shrug:
Manny, I thought for awhile on how to respond to this. I considered how I get called my own pope really regularly. One poster on this forum announced that Protestants don’t pray at all, not to mention the ones who say I’m led by Satan and I worship my Bible. I get the impression you are just trying to get a rise out of people.
The point is Catholics do not worship saints and Mary at the level we do God because God is our only mediator. When we venerate these saints, God is never excluded. In fact we say, pray for us. If you put God out, then it would idolatry.
I don’t think Protestant worship the Bible nor do they worship the roof over their heads. They do worship One God the same God, we Catholic worship.
I am just trying to point the false assumptions from what we Catholic believe and how ridicules it is to accused a Catholic a statue or icon worshipper. The one thing that upsets me the most is the thread “Name 3 reasons why you are not Catholic” which only proves some Non-Catholic Christians still have false misconception about the Catholic Church. It upsets me greatly.
There Catholics who have been labelling Protestants as Biblical worshippers, and others. I can only respond that you cannot fight wrong doing with another wrong doing.
This thread is only making a point. It is not intended to offend any Protestant.
Your analogy is funny. I certainly get your point. I too get very tired of being accursed of being an idol worshiper by those who do not understand our religion and our use of things like statues and icons.
Your analogy does however miss the main point… A statue or icon has a meaning that is important to Catholics. The ceiling is of no meaning except to separate the inside from the outside and to protect those who are inside from the elements.
I’ve never heard anyone calling protestants bible worshipers. But this is really the best analogy. Protestants do not worship the bible any more then Catholics worships the bible, statues or icons. But all of these object serve the same purpose… to teach and to remind one of the word.
The use of icons, paintings and statues started in the Catholic church from the very beginning. They were used because most people were illiterate. So the individuals and stories of the bible were rendered as statues, paintings and icons. The people were taught using these visual aids. A good example are the icons or paintings of the stations of the cross that have been in all (or just about all) of the Catholic Churches I have ever been in. These tell the story of the crucifixion. Every Catholic knows them and is reminded of them every time they attend mass.
Just as a Baptist, or other protestant might pray with a bible in front of them open to the chapter they that reflects what they are contemplating, a Catholic might pray with a statue, icon or artwork that reflects what they are contemplating. The art/statue/painting is not being worshipped any more then the bible is. They are way of recording the scriptures and its meanings.
In ancient times, those who painted the insides of Churches and who created icons had copy books. They contained outlines of the saints, angles, and different biblical stories. They would trace these on their media (walls, canvases, etc) and then color them with paint. This is why in many churches we see very similar art that differ only in the way an individual artist applied the paint. Typically this art did not try to be realistic but instead was very stylistic. The reason for this is that the story it told as what was important, not that person who was being drawn/painted. The painting or statue was to portray something spiritual, not something earthly.
I love the Catholic, Byzantine and Orthodox artwork. When I see one the entire story it relates goes through my head. It puts me in a place of religious contemplation. And of course I am not thinking that the object itself is to be worshiped.
As humans we have many ways to communicate. We should use all of our senses in communicating our faith. Having it written in words in the Bible is wonderful. But having the same depicted in art and in music raises to a level that helps the human mind understand it in a totally different light.
When people start going on about how I worship idols and statues I just tell them the above. Then its on them, now that they have had the truth of it told to them, if they want to continue ranting on about untruths. Some get it. Others continue to rant on …. For those their intent is to discredit the Catholic Church and not to understand our point of view. It’s their problem, not mine.
what about those addressing their praises to large screens upon which powerpoint presentations are projected? are we to condemn them as well? parishioners visited one of those mega non-denom churches in Dallas while on vacation and brought back pictures. Huge raised stage carpeted in red, enormous red upholstered chairs, the largest decorated like thrones, on which the pastor and his assistants sat, surrounded by at least 20 deacons or other ministers. No altar, no cross, no picture of Christ, just a huge screen with song lyrics, band and choir were on another stage altogether. It looked for all the world as if the congregation, seated theater style around the stage, were worshipping the persons seated on the stage. We know they were not, but if we judged only be appearances we could get very hypercritical.
No music. This forces everyone to sing “by ear” rather than by reading music. The result is unpleasant.
It’s bad for kids, too. My daughter (21) told me last week that she learned a lot of music reading skills by singing hymns out of a hymnal (seeing the notes go up or down in the score).
For all the same reasons above, I hate it when Catholic hymnals or missals only have the words and no music.
It makes no sense. If they’re not going to include the music to songs, then don’t include the words to songs, either. Or to any of the Bible readings. Just let us “hear it” rather than read it. Save the cost of the missals.
Bah. Humbug to screens and no music.
Back to Topic. I see accusations all the time on this board that Catholics call Protestants names. ** I would like to request that the mods crack down on this. I’d also like to request that when Protestants see this, that they report it immediately to the mods so it can be taken care of.**
Usually the mods on this forum are really on top of things, so I’m sure they would be willing to correct name-calling.
Frankly, I’ve never seen it, but I’ll admit that I’m not really paying attention, so I’ve probably missed it. On the other hand, on other online boards, I continue to see over and over again the assertation that Catholics worship Mary and pray to statues. On one boards, Protestants can say whatever they please about Catholics, but Catholics aren’t allowed to defend themselves because “no discussion of specific denominations is allowed” and “all discussions must be Biblically based.” Bah.
When ever I have read the term, Bible worshipper, used in relation to Protestants on this board, it is normally an attempt by the Catholic to point out how silly the particular Protestant is for accusing the Catholic of some sort of idol worship. (Sorry, for the overly wordy sentence) I don’t think that I have read an instance of a Catholic using the term who acutally believes that the Protestant is worshipping a bible.
I might be wrong though. If someone is calling you names, report it to the mods.
I see your point But just FYI: Not all protestant services are with hands raised towards the ceiling - most Lutheran services are actually quite similar, as far as I understand, to the Catholic mass in the way it is “performed” (sorry for the lack of a better English word…comes with being ESL )
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