Protestantism


#1

I left Protestantism but haven’t become a Catholic (started RCIA, loved it, got depressed and quit). I have major problems with the Protestantism such as The Sinner’s Prayer being the main requirement for Salvation (where is THAT in the Bible?), The whole Bible only thing, and in general just the way that most Protestants are acting these days with the End Times drama (it is even catching on in the Lutheran Church - UGH) Part of the reason I joined the Lutheran Church was that it seemed like a good compromise between Protestant and Catholic. What I mean is it was reverent and sacramental and liturgical without being too well Catholic. Come to find out that the Lutheran Church (IMO) doesn’t know WHAT it is! In the last few years my life-long Lutheran husband became disgusted with all the rock bands and hand-waving and general lack of reverence and the strong leaning in our parish to become more Baptisty Born-againish.

I’ve done alot of reading (Suprised by Truth 1,2,3, Scott Hahn, Karl Keating’s Fundamentalism and Catholicism etc. etc) to believe that if Christianity is true, then Catholicism is true and not Protestantism, but now I’m not convinced ANY of it’s true. However, I WANT to believe it’s true more than anything.

Convince me please? I’m open and vulnerable right now and I’m not always. :wink:


#2

You need to allow the Holy Spirit to convince you NOT man!


#3

I recommend going to the coming home network.
www.chnetwork.org

There are many stories of people who really had to struggle to find the truth. I came back to the Catholic Church a little while ago and it is difficult to do so. There are so many Churches, so many people saying different things it makes it very difficult.

There is a one true Church, it just takes some looking into with a fair eye and you will find it. I feel blessed now that I have found the Church and I know what to believe and why. If anyone asks any questions, I know there is a good logical answer and I can back it up.

I feel blessed to be part of the Catholic Church

You do need to pray and look, the Holy Spirit will guide you if you keep an open heart.


#4

Romans 10:9-10
%between%[9](“javascript:VClk(‘Ro 10:9’)”) thatif you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
%between%[10](“javascript:VClk(‘Ro 10:10’)”) for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation

There is no “special” prayer for salvation. There is no requirement for your words to go in a certain order for you to follow Christ and be saved.

(All of that coming from a Protestant…yeesh!)


#5

[quote=MasonsMommy]Romans 10:9-10
%between%[9](“javascript:VClk(‘Ro 10:9’)”) thatif you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
%between%[10](“javascript:VClk(‘Ro 10:10’)”) for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation

There is no “special” prayer for salvation. There is no requirement for your words to go in a certain order for you to follow Christ and be saved.

(All of that coming from a Protestant…yeesh!)
[/quote]

Of course, these verses, as well as any other passage from the Bible must be understood within the context of the whole of Christian teaching. Paul is assuming his readers already know/have done certain things. He’s not writing to pagans but to fellow Christians, so he is not talking about any conversion experience from paganism to Christianity. Rather, he is talking about continuing the Christian life in faithfulness. The initial sign of conversion is baptism not confessions or declarations of faith.


#6

[quote=Della] The initial sign of conversion is baptism not confessions or declarations of faith.
[/quote]

I do not yet agree with that intrepretation/tradition.


#7

I think the most important aspect about a church is its connection to Jesus and His apostles, Churches such as the Catholic and Orthodox churches maintain a link through Apostolic Succession and Tradition.

With it you get valid sacraments, most importantly The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. This is the binding factor as taught by the earliest christians.

Some other churches claim they adhere to Apostolic Tradition, but the truth is that only the two I mentioned do. All others broke with these traditions many years ago.

After that, you need to decide on the role of the Pope in your life. If you think of him as Christ’s personal minister here on earth, then become a Catholic. If not, look to the Orthodox church.

Explore before you decide.

If you have been baptised then you can ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.

Subrosa


#8

[quote=MasonsMommy](All of that coming from a Protestant…yeesh!)
[/quote]

Thanks but I wasn’t asking a Protestant to convince me of anything. I was a Protestant most of my life and now I’m not. If I wanted to be convinced of the wonders of Protestantism, I would be on a Protestant board, now wouldn’t I?

The average Protestantism is absolutely incredulous that someone might find Protestism wanting. I have been praying and I know strongly that I am being guided to by the Holy Spirit towards Catholism but I’m fighting it for whatever reason. You honestly think that coming on my thread and throwing out 2 bible versus will change my mind or what? Since I believe the Bible Alone premise is not true, what have you accomplished exactly? Maybe you ought to let the Holy Spirit guide you (it’s called practicing what you preach). Actually, maybe He is since you are here as well. I don’t mean to sound so snarly, but this is the problem I have with Protestantism as a whole.


#9

[quote=MasonsMommy]I do not yet agree with that intrepretation/tradition.
[/quote]

Because you have been taught not to, not because it is not found in the Bible. Look up the word baptism in any good concordance and read the verses in which it appears and you will see how it was viewed by the early Church and down through the centuries. It wasn’t until after the Reformation that certain people wanted to rid themselves of the sacraments and so ignored centuries of Christian practice and belief in order to push a very Gnostic understanding of Christ and the Church. One in which only the spirit mattered and not the body, but that is not what the early Church taught or practiced nor what 3/4th of Christians around the world today believe or practice.


#10

[quote=Ryniev]…if Christianity is true, then Catholicism is true and not Protestantism, but now I’m not convinced ANY of it’s true. However, I WANT to believe it’s true more than anything.

Convince me please?
[/quote]

Catholics believe faith, (like everything else) is a gift from God. So try asking the Holy Spirit for the gift of faith. My favorite prayer for that comes from the Bible, “Lord, I believe. Help me in my unbelief.”

A character in a book by C.S. Lewis once, when facing an evil character who was trying to lure him to sleep and deny truth, thrust his hand in the fire, (so the pain would wake him) and declared that he would live as a citizen of that heavenly place because he was better for that.

All that the Catholic Church teaches is true. I can keep typing that, but I can’t convince you of it. But using your head, you probably can see that living a real Christian life is better than a life without faith.

Keep living a life of faith, in spite of your doubts, and ask God to renew your faith in Him. I will pray for you also.


#11

[quote=Ryniev]…if Christianity is true, then Catholicism is true and not Protestantism, but now I’m not convinced ANY of it’s true. However, I WANT to believe it’s true more than anything.

Convince me please?
[/quote]

Catholics believe faith, (like everything else) is a gift from God. So try asking the Holy Spirit for the gift of faith. My favorite prayer for that comes from the Bible, “Lord, I believe. Help me in my unbelief.”

A character in a book by C.S. Lewis once, when facing an evil character who was trying to lure him to sleep and deny truth, thrust his hand in the fire, (so the pain would wake him) and declared that he would live as a citizen of that heavenly place because he was better for that.

All that the Catholic Church teaches is true. I can keep typing that, but I can’t convince you of it. But using your head, you probably can see that living a real Christian life is better than a life without faith.

Keep living a life of faith, in spite of your doubts, and ask God to renew your faith in Him. I will pray for you also.


#12

The only really good reason for becoming a Catholic is because Catholicism is true. That is why I became a Catholic in the teeth of my feelings about Catholic culture and my fears that I was entering the “whore of Babylon”.

Oh yes, I had a lot of things to get past, but the thing that kept me on course was the fact that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ who promised that he would be with it always, preserve it in truth, and guide it through anything and everything man and devil can throw at it.

If the Catholic Church isn’t true, then neither was Christ. That is what I think you need to come to understand in order to get past your fears and reservations.


#13

Umm… If you are wondering if Christianity is even true, then I can recommend some books that helped me:

Orthodoxy - G. K. Chesterton
*Mere Christianity - *C. S. Lewis


#14

[quote=Della]The only really good reason for becoming a Catholic is because Catholicism is true. That is why I became a Catholic in the teeth of my feelings about Catholic culture and my fears that I was entering the “whore of Babylon”.

Oh yes, I had a lot of things to get past, but the thing that kept me on course was the fact that the Catholic Church was founded by Christ who promised that he would be with it always, preserve it in truth, and guide it through anything and everything man and devil can throw at it.

If the Catholic Church isn’t true, then neither was Christ. That is what I think you need to come to understand in order to get past your fears and reservations.
[/quote]

Thank you for your post. This is what my problem is. I believe that if Christ is true so is Catholicism but I can’t get past some of the “rules”. For example, I’ve never been convinced that birth control is something awful and I’ve ready every argument I could find to try and convince me and I’m just not convinced. Not to mention that not a single one of my Catholic friends follows this rule. I figure if I’m going to join the church I need to agree with it’s tenents so as not to be a hyprocrite. So I don’t believe in Protestantism but I don’t believe BC is bad so I’m stuck in No Man’s Land thinking maybe none of it’s true.

Does this make any sense to anyone?


#15

Look, my personal belief is that BC is not bad…but that’s only satisfying my desire for the flesh and not my desire to do God’s will. Just because many Catholics use BC, it doesnt make it right. The Church will teach the correct doctrine but many Catholics are more influenced by societal pressures for a variety of reasons. I will offer you some scripture which hopefully will give you enough reason to understand that BC circumvents the will of God, but ultimately you have to be open to God’s will, not yours. Good luck, I’m encouraged you are seeking.

Scripture

Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful (“fertile”) and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God’s plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.

Gen. 28:3 - Isaac’s prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.

Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah, like Onan, also rejected God’s command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.

Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed.

Gen. 38:9 - also, the author’s usage of the graphic word “seed,” which is very uncharacteristic for Hebrew writing, further highlights the reason for Onan’s death.

Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God’s plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.

Lev.18:22-23;20:13 - wasting seed with non-generative sexual acts warrants death. Many Protestant churches, which have all strayed from the Catholic Church, reject this fundamental truth (few Protestants and Catholics realize that contraception was condemned by all of Christianity - and other religions - until the Anglican church permitted it in certain cases at the Lambeth conference in 1930. This opened the floodgates of error).

Lev. 21:17,20 - crushed testicles are called a defect and a blemish before God. God reveals that deliberate sterilization and any other methods which prevent conception are intrinsically evil.

Deut. 23:1 - whoever has crushed testicles or is castrated cannot enter the assembly. Contraception is objectively sinful and contrary, not only to God’s Revelation, but the moral and natural law.

Deut. 25:11-12 - there is punishment for potential damage to the testicles, for such damage puts new life at risk. It, of course, follows that vasectomies, which are done with willful consent, are gravely contrary to the natural law.

1 Chron. 25:5 - God exalts His people by blessing them with many children. When married couples contracept, they are declaring “not your will God, but my will be done.”

Psalm 127:3-5 - children are a gift of favor from God and blessed is a full quiver. Married couples must always be open to God’s precious gift of life. Contraception, which shows a disregard for human life, has lead to the great evils of abortion, euthanasia, and infanticide.

Hosea 9:11; Jer. 18:21 - God punishes Israel by preventing pregnancy. Contraception is a curse, and married couples who use contraception are putting themselves under the same curse.

Mal. 2:14 - marriage is not a contract (which is a mere exchange of property or services). It is a covenant, which means a supernatural exchange of persons. Just as God is three in one, so are a husband and wife, who become one flesh and bring forth new life, three in one. Marital love is a reflection of the Blessed Trinity.

Mal. 2:15 - What does God desire? Godly offspring. What is contraception? A deliberate act against God’s will. With contraception, a couple declares, “God may want an eternal being created with our union, but we say no.” Contraception is a grave act of selfishness.

Matt. 19:5-6 - Jesus said a husband and wife shall become one. They are no longer two, but one, just as God is three persons, yet one. The expression of authentic marital love reintegrates our bodies and souls to God, and restores us to our original virginal state (perfect integration of body and soul) before God.

Matt. 19:6; Eph. 5:31 - contraception prevents God’s ability to “join” together. Just as Christ’s love for the Church is selfless and sacrificial, and a husband and wife reflect this union, so a husband and wife’s love for each other must also be selfless and sacrificial. This means being open to new life.

Acts 5:1-11 - Ananias and Sapphira were slain because they withheld part of a gift. Fertility is a gift from God and cannot be withheld.


#16

Rom.1:26-27 - sexual acts without the possibility of procreation is sinful. Self-giving love is life-giving love, or the love is a lie. The unitive and procreative elements of marital love can never be divided, or the marital love is also divided, and God is left out of the marriage.

1 Cor. 6:19-20 - the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must glorify God in our bodies by being open to His will.

1 Cor. 7:5 - this verse supports the practice of natural family planning (“NFP”). Married couples should not refuse each other except perhaps by agreement for a season, naturally.

Gal. 6:7-8 - God is not mocked for what a man sows. If to the flesh, corruption. If to the Spirit, eternal life.

Eph. 5:25 - Paul instructs husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, by giving his entire body to her and holding nothing back. With contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and you can have me except for my fertility. This love is a lie because it is self-centered, and not self-giving and life-giving.

Eph. 5:29-31; Phil. 3:2 - mutilating the flesh (e.g., surgery to prevent conception) is gravely sinful. Many Protestant churches reject this most basic moral truth.

1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a “work” through which women may be saved by God’s grace.

Deut. 22:13-21 – these verses also show that God condemns pre-marital intercourse. The living expression of God’s creative love is reserved for a sacramental marriage between one man and one woman. Rev. 9:21; 21:8; 22:15; Gal. 5:20 - these verses mention the word “sorcery.” The Greek word is “pharmakeia” which includes abortifacient potions such as birth control pills. These pharmakeia are mortally sinful. Moreover, chemical contraception does not necessarily prevent conception, but may actually kill the child in the womb after conception has occurred (by preventing the baby from attaching to the uterine wall). Contraception is a lie that has deceived millions, but the Church is holding her arms open wide to welcome back her children who have strayed from the truth.


#17

Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Let me ask you this. My dh has had a vasectomy and I’m in late 30’s. After I had my third child (4th pregnancy) I have had some serious (non-life threatening) health issues which cause me to be very tired and irritable at times. It’s hard enough to keep up with the children I already have and I honestly have no desire for more children even if I could. Is there still a place in the Catholic Church for someone like me?


#18

[quote=Ryniev]Thanks for taking the time to post all of that. Let me ask you this. My dh has had a vasectomy and I’m in late 30’s. After I had my third child (4th pregnancy) I have had some serious (non-life threatening) health issues which cause me to be very tired and irritable at times. It’s hard enough to keep up with the children I already have and I honestly have no desire for more children even if I could. Is there still a place in the Catholic Church for someone like me?
[/quote]

I’m quite sure there is, but to be honest, I can’t offer a complete answer to this. I would recommend posting that question in the Ask An Apologist section.

My honest opinion, is you could practice NFP (Natural Family Planning) which is approved by the church.

What is a DH? (your spouse I’m assuming?)

By the way, sorry for dumping all that scripture on you. I’ve learned all to well in the past that playing scripture ping pong doesn’t always convince someone of your point of view. I just thought it would help on this issue for you.


#19

Dh = darling husband in internet speak. :slight_smile: Is it permissable here to cut and paste this thread (or this portion) to that section? It would seem to me that a universal church should have room for everyone regardless of their past but I guess I would have to actually be sorry about the vasectomy and I’m not. I guess I really am a Protestant after all. :o


#20

[quote=Ryniev]Dh = darling husband in internet speak. :slight_smile: Is it permissable here to cut and paste this thread (or this portion) to that section? It would seem to me that a universal church should have room for everyone regardless of their past but I guess I would have to actually be sorry about the vasectomy and I’m not. I guess I really am a Protestant after all. :o
[/quote]

You can cut and paste, absolutely. I think you said it best though. You have to be sorry for the Vasectomy because it was sinful, and sin is us rejecting Gods will. So if you’re not sorry for rejecting Gods will, then you’re not sorry for the Vasectomy. I think you see my point.

Definitely ask an apologist on this though to get a better answer. God Bless.


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