Protestants as part of the church

Do catholics view the Protestant churches as part of the universal church? Do the catholics believe that God takes care of the protestant church?

The fact that you’re Christian at all is because of your valid baptism into the Church that Christ founded…the Catholic Church. The Catechism speaks to this issue when it says…

832 "The Church of Christ is really present in all legitimately organized local groups of the faithful, which, in so far as they are united to their pastors, are also quite appropriately called Churches in the New Testament. . . . In them the faithful are gathered together through the preaching of the Gospel of Christ, and the mystery of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated. . . . In these communities, though they may often be small and poor, or existing in the diaspora, Christ is present, through whose power and influence the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is constituted."312

833 The phrase “particular Church,” which is first of all the diocese (or eparchy), refers to a community of the Christian faithful in communion of faith and sacraments with their bishop ordained in apostolic succession.313 These particular Churches "are constituted after the model of the universal Church; it is in these and formed out of them that the one and unique Catholic Church exists."314

834 Particular Churches are fully catholic through their communion with one of them, the Church of Rome "which presides in charity."315 "For with this church, by reason of its pre-eminence, the whole Church, that is the faithful everywhere, must necessarily be in accord."316 Indeed, "from the incarnate Word’s descent to us, all Christian churches everywhere have held and hold the great Church that is here [at Rome] to be their only basis and foundation since, according to the Savior’s promise, the gates of hell have never prevailed against her."317

835 "Let us be very careful not to conceive of the universal Church as the simple sum, or . . . the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission, but when she put down her roots in a variety of cultural, social, and human terrains, she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world."318 The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines, liturgical rites, and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches "unified in a common effort, shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided Church."319

**Who belongs to the Catholic Church? **
836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

So if someone believes in Jesus and follows his teachings to a T, but is not baptized…you yourself would not consider her Christian?


It’s not a matter of personal opinion. It is a statement of fact.

A person is not a member of the Body of Christ until they are baptized.

Baptism is the gateway to all other sacraments, and baptism remits original and personal sin, infuses our souls with sanctifying grace, and incorporates us into the Body of Christ.

It is possible for those outside the Church to enter Heaven, but certain qualifications must be met.

A person who goes out of his way to harass the Church, rather than just simply disagreeing with it, is revealing himself as someone who is an enemy of Christ’s church, an Anti-Christ, in other words.

Hmmm… doesn’t make much sense to me, especially when Jesus told the thief on the cross that He’d see him in paradise. Or in another situation, when an unclean woman touched the hem of His garment. Neither of those people underwent the rituals you have cited.

No. If so, it would mean we could obtain salvation through our works alone. We cannot work our way to salvation - it comes from the Grace of God, and God imparts that Grace through Christian Baptism.

But I would clarify this by saying that if the person desires Baptism but is unable to receive it before she dies, the Grace of Baptism is imparted to her through what is known as the “Baptism of Desire.” This is not a different type of Baptism - it is a subset of Baptism where we receive the Grace of Baptism apart from water.

Can you elaborate on how it is possible one could believe in Jesus and not get baptized?


The thief died before the beginning of the new covenant. And if you think Christ and the thief went to the paradise you are thinking of that day you had better think again.

If they were following his teachings to a T they would be baptized. If they were unable to be baptized but knew they should or needed to it would be called a baptism of desire and that person would get baptized as soon as they could or were able, such as starting an RCIA class or visiting a priest for teaching.

The unclean woman was made well because of her faith and she would have been part of the old law and the sacrament of baptism had not yet been instituted in the new law. The thief on the cross would be experiencing a baptism of desire. Also the word today in that instance doesn’t necessarily mean that particular day. We know Jesus didn’t rise until the third day.

Wrong. The thief on the cross had a Baptism of Desire which as David Filmer states imparts the graces of sacramental baptism to those who desire it but die before receiving it.

If I never joined the club, but I do everything what the club does, do you think the management of the club think I am a club member? Definitely not, but I am eligible to join most likely.

I would say that she is a Christian by virtue of her implicit desire for baptism.

Jesus was not saying that the thief would be enjoying the beatific vision of God that same day.

Most likely, the thief went to the paradise of the Fathers - a pleasant place where holy men and women of the OT were awaiting their redemption.

Once Jesus descended into “hell” - not Gehenna - he preached and they were released into heaven. This is the “harrowing of hell” that Protestants speak of.

The Good Thief would have been among those who heard him preach there.

Well, Jesus did say, “THIS DAY you will be with me in paradise.” I don’t know what paradise that “wildrumpus” was thinking of, but the paradise that I think of when I consider that passage is whatever paradise that Jesus was talking about.

Watch this video:

Good video.

Yes, but I’m asking your personal opinion.
You would not consider a person “Christian” if they followed all that Jesus taught, whether they’d been baptized or not?


“The Club”!!!
I see…


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