some protestants say that one must believe in sola fide in order to be saved. I was curious as to how many protestants here believe this and if so, where in the bible does it say that accepting that we are saved by faith alone is essential to salvation?
Ok, I should have read your post before answering the question. What I was going to say is that we DO believe that faith alone is what saves us, but it should go without saying that faith produces works.
Techniqually, good works are impossible to do without faith. How can anything we do be ‘good’ apart from God? Doesn’t our sinful nature prevent us from goodness?
Protestants believe that only faith in Christ could save you:
A. because if it were possible to save yourself through works then Christ died for no reason.
B. The apostle Paul say so in Eph 2:8-9 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not fram yourself, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.”
I hesitate to answer this question. Like Sola Scriptura, many people have differing ideas about what sola fide actually means and the OP did not define the term.
I hope this isnt a baiting question but here it goes.
Yes we are saved by our faith(meaning entrance into heaven) like the poster above said unto good works. We cant do good works that Glorify God until we have faith in Him.
Yes we are all judged by our works–but those who believe have already been found not guilty and our good works are judged towards whether or not we get any rewards in heaven. There are levels of rewards in heaven.
People who dont believe or think they do but in actuality they didnt according to God’s standards are also judged by their works but have already been condemned to hell because of their non-belief or lack of Faith. Maybe the judgement of their works goes toward the level of eternal punishment they will receive. Ive read that people here believe in certain levels of hell in which someone will be punished less severely. I believe that as well.
After all the bible does say that God will judge accordingly as to what a person has done. That sounds to me that that could mean levels of reward and punishment.
Im no scholar on this so Im not sure how much detail I could get into about it.
So what happens when faith doesn’t produce works? Is the person claiming to be saved really saved? It is a confusing and contradictory message. The Church I use to attend would preach “once saved always saved”, and then you wern’t suppose to doubt that you were saved. But if you didn’t have works or weren’t quite spitual enough, others would doubt your salvation. People were always confused. I’m a former Baptist. I saw more people claiming to be saved in my Southern Baptist church telling others why and how they should be saved and proclaiming eterrnal security. All the while I knew many who were continuing in unrepentent “mortal sins” as the Catholic church would describe it. I guess they believed that once they said that little prayer they were saved, and although it was preached that their new found liberty shouldn’t be used as an excuse to continue in sin, the reality of it was that they didn’t have an insentive to stop sinning anymore. Adultery, divorce and remarriage were rampant within the church. Then there was my father-in-laws hatred of two of his daughter while still acting like he was the model Christian. It got to the point that our non-Christian friends in many cases had a lot better morals and ethics than our Baptist, and Evangelical friends or rather aquatainces.
Anyway we were bad Baptists because we always had a problem with the once saved always saved theology and we believed that you need a faith that porduces works otherwise it is dead. The theological problem is that to exercise your faith is a work in itself. But I’ll show you my faith by my works.
Oh well I think I rambled and went off topic. Anyway I am in RCIA and the Catholic interpretation of scripture makes so much more logical sence in my mind. And the devout Catholics I know are more humble and more concerned with taking the plank out of their own eye before judging others, and don’t go around acting like their goal is to save everyone else before working on themselves. They still evangelize just in a different way. They evengelize by example and compassion.
Just My Humble or maybe not so humble opinion.
I would agree with the once saved always saved. however there is definatly more to it then saying a little prayer. The apostle James say “Faith without deeds is dead” as well if you have deed but no faith it is useless. if you cannot see the fruit of the Holy Spirit at work in a person you may be able to assume that they are not saved in the first place. however this isn’t a sure fire method for determining salvation. This has been an issue with Protestants since the beginning, that we cannot know the heart of an individual to see whether or not they are saved. deanarrca i would suggests that you read all of 1 john to answer your question because he talks about how if a person continues in sin intentionally and without remorse then they are not “born of God” is the term used here 1 John 3:9 “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.”
hopefully this helps to clears up your understanding of what the scripture teaches. if i haven’t explained this well enough let me know and i’ll try again. but in the mean time continue to “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” Philippians 2:12
1st John 3-30
This whole passage seems to be saying test to see if you are in the faith (truly saved). If I used this test, allmost all professing “Saved” Christians I know, would fail the test and therefore, I would conclude not really saved. So the majority claiming “once saved always saved” were never really saved in the first place. Cicular argument. Therefore they are sitting in Churches thinking they are saved, when they are in fact not, and because of what is preached in many churches, and how the people are interpreting it, they are lulled into a very false security. Again I do not believe in once saved always saved- I do believe that if I truly believe that Jesus is the Christ and Messiah. That he is God’s son and God incarnate here on earth and that he paid the price with his self sacrifice so that we could have salvation through him, that I can have my sins forgiven and cleared away. In that sence I am saved right now, and I am secure. I am also secure in that the bible says “seek and ye shall find”, and I continue to seek, so I know I will find. However I am leaning toward the Catholic interpretation and belief (and I believe the bible supports the Cathloic interpretation best, especially after reading 20 years worth of apologetics on the matter) one can lose their salvation if they fall into unrepentent mortal sin. I have seen many sincere wonderful faithful Christians who, for one reason or another, later fell away and now reject everything they once believed in. Can they repent and come back? Sure. However I don’t like the Baptist twist to say then that they were never saved in the first place. That is very presumptious. sp? They, at the time, thought they were saved, everyone around them thought they were saved, and they were told they were saved by the preachers in the pulpit.
I know I am saved now, I don’t know what will happen down the road, I will continue to work out my salvation in fear and trembling.
the question that i’m asking is does a person have to accept sola fide as a valid doctrine in order to be saved according to the protestants on this forum?
for instance, many protestants although they believe in sola fide, acknolege catholics as christians even though they know that catholics reject sola fide.
other protestants believe that catholics are not christians because they reject sola fide
My sister would say yes. Im hesitant to say yes because Im not God:p
No one will be saved by their doctrine no matter how perfect.
We are saved solely by the great grace and mercy of God.
now what i’m asking, is what biblical support to you have for this. I know the verses which protestants quote to support this doctrine (though i dissagree with their interpretation) but what biblical support could protestants use to support the belief that one must accept soal fide as a valid doctrine in order to be saved?
i would like to bring your attention to John 10:28 “I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.” i interpret this verse as saying that once you become a part of God family nothing can take you away. i will agree in that if you look soley at the passage i mentioned earlier then no one is saved. however i would ask that you read the whole book to better understand what is being said. 1 john 2:1 “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” obivously everybody sins even after conversion thats a fact and the sinning is not what the problem was at that baptist church it was that the congregation failed to realize their sinful state and were not willing to repent. one of my older brothers is not saved although at one point i thought he was. thats bound to happen when you grow up in the church and attend a christian high school, you get pressured into the religion i know many people who say the prayer just because they want people to get off their back. back to my brother i know he is not saved and never was because i don’t see the fruit of the spirit at work in his life. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law (Gal 5:22-23).” and since Jesus say no one can steal what is his (and i equivilate Christians falling away as Satan stealing them) then my brother was never in Gods family. John says in 1 john 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” if my brother was saved he wouldn’t have fallen away and i would say that the same is true for others aswell.
As i said before if it were possible to save yourself through works then Christ did not need to die. in Eph 2:8-9 it says it’s by grace you have been through faith and this not from yourself. also Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” if it’s a free gift then why would we need to work for it. other verses are Gal 2:16 Romans 3:20 Paul repeats himself time and time again that it’s by faith yor are saved.
Brilliant…thanx for this explanation , God bless you !!!
I dont mean to be rude but if you already know the verses we would use then why should I repeat them. I just hate saying the same thing over and over again. Besides would you believe them anyway–probably not because you already know them and you dont agree sooo:p again. :shrug:
Sorry I sound harsh–Im tired and my kids are on spring break:eek: But I do feel this way. Besides someone did put some verses out there already.
Christ died for all men, He is the ransom, sacrifice, payment for all mankinds’ sins. Yet are all men saved? NO
He died for our sins - so our sins can be forgiven. This gift of forgiveness is Free by grace alone!, but to access that we need to beleive/ have faith and that faith is an active alive faith demonstrated by works. Grace alone, but not faith alone.
I agree with <<" obivously everybody sins even after conversion thats a fact and the sinning is not what the problem was at that baptist church it was that the congregation failed to realize their sinful state and were not willing to repent>> Exactly!! and I believe the reason most fail to realize they have a sin problem after they believe they are “saved”, is that they really have a misunderrstanding of the once saved always saved theology that is preached to them. Only from God’s perspective can once saved always saved seem plausible because he knows the outcome. We in our human state do not.
For instance you mention your brother <<back to my brother i know he is not saved and never was because i don’t see the fruit of the spirit at work in his life. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law>>
Did he or you believe that he was saved at the time? But now you see no fruit in him so you believe he was never saved? Well maybe he was neverr saved but, then again he might just be backslidden and if he returns to the Lord before his death you can say well maybe he was saved all along? From our human perrspective we can’t know.
My problem is with people that believe they are saved, defend their salvation using the once saved always saved argument even though they are living sinful unrepentent lives. They are fooling themselves but I think the once saved always saved argument is dangerous and leads people in this type of thinking. It is the cocaine addict telling me that even though he is a cocaine addict, with no intention of giving it up, how he is saved and I am not. (incident that happened way back in highschool). Or my sister-in-law who was a born again Christian and was even baptised in the Jordan river on a trip to the holy land who now has turned her back on all that, and has become a Jehovas witness. Or my father-in-law who acts like the model Christian and seems to judge everyone else but who we know is hiding a deep dark family secret and has disowned and has an avid hatred toward two of my other sister-in-laws because of it.
So back to the original poster’s question-- I would like to know too. Would you say I have to believe in faith alone in order to be saved? I truly Love the Lord and I am truly trying to Love him with all my soul, mind, and heart and because I love him I am trying to obey his comandments. Where I fail, I repent and ask forgiveness. I believe in Grace alone but not faith alone which I believe are two different things.
PS: I am not an apologist by any means, but am trying to speak soley from my personal experience which as you can see has shaped a lot of my opinion.
Replace “sola fide” with Jesus Christ. Now, place all of your faith in Jesus Christ, His finished work on the cross, & His resurrection. Now repent.
Remember, faith can’t be alone… if you see a brother in need, help him out.
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Because I was kinda mean before–I found an article that sums it up nicely. I know you wont believe it but here it is. They give scripture that you can look up.
Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?
Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation - the split between the Protestant church and Catholic church. This question is a key difference between Biblical Christianity and most of the “Christian” cults.(CC is not a cult) Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?
The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). In reality, Paul and James did not disagree at all. The only point of disagreement some people claim is over the relationship between faith and works. Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life – then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).
Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17)! James and Paul do not disagree on their teaching on salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that faith in Christ produces good works.
Recommended Resource: Faith Alone: The Evangelical Doctrine of Justification by R.C. Sproul.
I’m middle of the road here. Some Catholics are Christians some are not. If the Catholic has the required faith and has turned their lives over to God… they are Christians. the ones who say “Well, My parents had me baptized as an infant and I am not a bad person overall, therefore I’m Catholic and I will probably get into heaven” are likely NOT Christians.
While I’ve seen over and over on this forum that the second is not proper Catholic Teaching, it is what I hear from the majority of Catholics I’ve met in person.
The doctrine ‘sola fide’ is not required for salvation. True Faith IS required.