Protestants/LDS: Isn't this proof that Peter was "set apart" from the other apostles?


#1

Mark
Chapter 16
1
1 When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go and anoint him.
2
Very early when the sun had risen, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb.
3
They were saying to one another, "Who will roll back the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?"
4
When they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back; it was very large.
5
On entering the tomb they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a white robe, and they were utterly amazed.
6
He said to them, "Do not be amazed! You seek Jesus of Nazareth, the crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Behold the place where they laid him.
7
But go and tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as he told you.'"
8
Then they went out and fled from the tomb, seized with trembling and bewilderment. They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.


#2

I am about to leave for church, however briefly, Latter-day Saints do believe that Peter was the chief Apostle/earthly head of the New Testament Church.


#3

[quote="lax16, post:1, topic:279984"]
Mark
Chapter 16
1
1 When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go and anoint him.
2
Very early when the sun had risen, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb.
3
They were saying to one another, "Who will roll back the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?"
4
When they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back; it was very large.
5
On entering the tomb they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a white robe, and they were utterly amazed.
6
He said to them, "Do not be amazed! You seek Jesus of Nazareth, the crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Behold the place where they laid him.
7
But go and tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as he told you.'"
8
Then they went out and fled from the tomb, seized with trembling and bewilderment. They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

[/quote]

Remember at this point, Peter's outright denial of Jesus makes his status within the group of disciples quite unclear. For example, compare Luke 24:34, where the disciples even revert to calling Peter plain old "Simon." The surprise expressed in Luke is that Jesus appeared even to HIM.


#4

Actually, the New Testament is full of proof that Peter was lead Apostle and leader of the Church. Peter is mentioned in NT more than the other apostles combined. Peter is who preached the first sermon. Peter performed the first miracle. Peter was who Christ spoke to give the new law regarding gentiles. It is pretty clear.


#5

[quote="Dave_Noonan, post:3, topic:279984"]
Remember at this point, Peter's outright denial of Jesus makes his status within the group of disciples quite unclear. For example, compare Luke 24:34, where the disciples even revert to calling Peter plain old "Simon." The surprise expressed in Luke is that Jesus appeared even to HIM.

[/quote]

Hi Dave Noonan - But it is the angel of God who is speaking so obviously he would know Peter's status.
Also, Peter was the first man Jesus appeared to after the women - why would Jesus choose Peter first if his status was unclear?
And a third point, we know from Matthew 26:75 and Mark 14:72 how Peter felt about his denial:

King James Version (KJV)
75And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Mark 14:72
King James Version.
And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.


#6

[quote="TexanKnight, post:4, topic:279984"]
Actually, the New Testament is full of proof that Peter was lead Apostle and leader of the Church. Peter is mentioned in NT more than the other apostles combined. Peter is who preached the first sermon. Peter performed the first miracle. Peter was who Christ spoke to give the new law regarding gentiles. It is pretty clear.

[/quote]

Yes, the NT is full of proof. The scripture that I cited really jumped out at me yesterday when the angel of God said "the apostles and Peter" - I mean this is absolutely clear what God was implying! He was more than an apostle - he was the leader.


#7

[quote="LivingWaters7, post:2, topic:279984"]
I am about to leave for church, however briefly, Latter-day Saints do believe that Peter was the chief Apostle/earthly head of the New Testament Church.

[/quote]

Hi LivingWaters7 - I was told by several Mormons (missionaries included) that LDS believe that John *should have been/really was *the lead Apostle.:confused:

Do you think that Peter was but it was a mistake and it should have been John?

Also, are you saying that Jesus chose Peter to head up his Early Church knowing it was all going to end with the original apostles?

If Peter was the chief Apostle during the Early Church and did not pass on priestly authority, as Mormons believe, then why do you think Jesus would choose someone who was not able to handle the job?


#8

[quote="lax16, post:7, topic:279984"]
Hi LivingWaters7 - I was told by several Mormons (missionaries included) that LDS believe that John *should have been/really was *the lead Apostle.:confused:

Do you think that Peter was but it was a mistake and it should have been John?

Also, are you saying that Jesus chose Peter to head up his Early Church knowing it was all going to end with the original apostles?

If Peter was the chief Apostle during the Early Church and did not pass on priestly authority, as Mormons believe, then why do you think Jesus would choose someone who was not able to handle the job?

[/quote]

Mormons have an odd thing.........they believe John (who held the Priesthood) never died....and still walks the earth, yet they believe in an Apostasy where the Priesthood and authority was taken from the Earth.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm"


#9

[quote="TexanKnight, post:8, topic:279984"]
Mormons have an odd thing.........they believe John (who held the Priesthood) never died....and still walks the earth, yet they believe in an Apostasy where the Priesthood and authority was taken from the Earth.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm"

[/quote]

Yes, hmmmmmm is right. If he is still here then priesthood authority is still here, right?
He was one of the original apostles so..........:shrug:

I have been told that John was the most qualified and *should have been chosen *to be the leader - once again, Jesus can't seem to get it right I guess.


#10

[quote="TexanKnight, post:8, topic:279984"]
Mormons have an odd thing.........they believe John (who held the Priesthood) never died....and still walks the earth, yet they believe in an Apostasy where the Priesthood and authority was taken from the Earth.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm"

[/quote]

I believe it is rather clear. Apostasy means there was no one authorized to exercise all priesthood keys. Yes, John held the priesthood but he was not authorized to carry it forward.

We definitely believe, and revere, Peter as the head of the church in ancient times. This information about John is incorrect.


#11

[quote="Janderich, post:10, topic:279984"]
I believe it is rather clear. Apostasy means there was no one authorized to exercise all priesthood keys. Yes, John held the priesthood but he was not authorized to carry it forward.

We definitely believe, and revere, Peter as the head of the church in ancient times. This information about John is incorrect.

[/quote]

Sure He could. Jesus gave them the keys and told them to go forth and baptize all nations......you may have missed that in your Bible. It is called the Great Commission.

Face it, it is just another LDS inconsistency.

Hope you are having a Blessed Easter


#12

[quote="Janderich, post:10, topic:279984"]
I believe it is rather clear. Apostasy means there was no one authorized to exercise all priesthood keys. Yes, John held the priesthood but he was not authorized to carry it forward.

We definitely believe, and revere, Peter as the head of the church in ancient times. This information about John is incorrect.

[/quote]

Hello Janderich - Happy Easter!

Did Peter, as head of the Church in ancient times, exercise his priestly authority?

What information about John is incorrect?


#13

[quote="lax16, post:7, topic:279984"]
Hi LivingWaters7 - I was told by several Mormons (missionaries included) that LDS believe that John *should have been/really was *the lead Apostle.:confused:

Do you think that Peter was but it was a mistake and it should have been John?

[/quote]

I think what those Mormons were talking about was that John was still alive when the first four successors of St. Peter were chosen as pope.

Mormons believe that when the current leader of the church dies, the senior apostle (the one who has been an apostle the longest) becomes the new leader.

Since John was still alive when St. Peter died, Mormons cite the fact that John was not chosen to succeed St. Peter as leader of the church as evidence of the "great apostasy".

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)


#14

[quote="Janderich, post:10, topic:279984"]
I believe it is rather clear. Apostasy means there was no one authorized to exercise all priesthood keys. Yes, John held the priesthood but he was not authorized to carry it forward.

We definitely believe, and revere, Peter as the head of the church in ancient times. This information about John is incorrect.

[/quote]

But who has been authorized to authorize the apostasy, and from whom? Saying from God with no testimony and no actions different from normal people could make everybody claim it. I could calim it too.
Even Jesus few times recognize the validity to put in doubt what He was saying, at least as a man. Anybody of an extremely high inspiration, could have said, as a man, something like He said. But if was not just an inspirated man. But He said:
Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves(John 14:11)
but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may [a]know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” (John 10:38)

Jesus was prophetized as the Christ, Joseph Smith as one of the many faulse prophets.
But even though :
*But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance. *(Marc 13:23)
Mormon prefer believing in a "new revelation".

Mormons have hard time to believe what Jesus said through the writings of reporter like John, Mattew and so on, prefering thinking whatever contradict their doctrine to be badly translated or whatever.
Do you really think they would make a big deal with who was Peter?


#15

[quote="PaulDupre, post:13, topic:279984"]
I think what those Mormons were talking about was that John was still alive when the first four successors of St. Peter were chosen as pope.

Mormons believe that when the current leader of the church dies, the senior apostle (the one who has been an apostle the longest) becomes the new leader.

Since John was still alive when St. Peter died, Mormons cite the fact that John was not chosen to succeed St. Peter as leader of the church as evidence of the "great apostasy".

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

[/quote]

Hi PaulDupre - The pamphlet given to me by the missionaries states:

...The Apostles were killed, and priesthood authority - including the keys to direct and receive revelation for the Church - was taken from the earth. Because the Church was no longer led by priesthood authority, error crept into Church teachings. Good people and much truth remained, but the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost. This period is called the Great Apostasy.

If John was still alive - and is still alive - then how could the priesthood authority be taken from the earth?

Thanks for the clarification regarding John not being chosen after Peter - that clears some of the fog for me.


#16

Mormons just make stuff up.


#17

[quote="lax16, post:1, topic:279984"]
Mark
Chapter 16
1
1 When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary, the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go and anoint him.
2
Very early when the sun had risen, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb.
3
They were saying to one another, "Who will roll back the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?"
4
When they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled back; it was very large.
5
On entering the tomb they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a white robe, and they were utterly amazed.
6
He said to them, "Do not be amazed! You seek Jesus of Nazareth, the crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Behold the place where they laid him.
7
But go and tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him, as he told you.'"
8
Then they went out and fled from the tomb, seized with trembling and bewilderment. They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

[/quote]

In many ways, Peter was unique among the apostles, set apart if that's the term you want to use. What is your point?

Jon


#18

[quote="JonNC, post:17, topic:279984"]
In many ways, Peter was unique among the apostles, set apart if that's the term you want to use. What is your point?

Jon

[/quote]

JonNC - Happy Easter!

My point is that Jesus set him apart because he was chosen to lead the Church.

If you do not believe Jesus set Peter apart from the other apostles as head of his Church, then what does this scriptural passage mean to you?

Or was Peter's appointment temporary?


#19

[quote="TexanKnight, post:8, topic:279984"]
Mormons have an odd thing.........they believe John (who held the Priesthood) never died....and still walks the earth, yet they believe in an Apostasy where the Priesthood and authority was taken from the Earth.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm"

[/quote]

Keep in mind, There were those alleged 3 nephites who also had the "priesthood" who weren't supposed to die either. So, for Mormon "theology" to be true there were 4 failures: Jesus, because the gates of Hell prevailed against the Church, John, and the 3 nephites, who did nothing to stop an apostasy. Thank the Good Lord I got out of that nonsense.


#20

[quote="lax16, post:18, topic:279984"]
JonNC - Happy Easter!

My point is that Jesus set him apart because he was chosen to lead the Church.

If you do not believe Jesus set Peter apart from the other apostles as head of his Church, then what does this scriptural passage mean to you?

Or was Peter's appointment temporary?

[/quote]

And a blessed Easter to you! He is risen!

I wasn't clear, my apology. What is the logical conclusion that we can draw regarding that fact that St. Peter is in many ways unique in his leadership amongst the apostles?

Jon


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