Protestants listen up...part II

I see the other thread filled up and started this one so the conversation could continue.

Since the main division on the other thread was due to interpretation of scriptures, I’d love some of our Protestant brothers and sisters to explain where they get the authority to tell someone else thier interpretation of scriptures is infallible over anyone else, especially in light of the sola scriptura and private interpretation teachings are non-scriptural.

I’m far from a theologian or a scholar of religion, but I have never seen or heard of a (mainstream) Protestant claiming infallibility for his or her interpretation of Scripture. In fact, I thought that this was one of the major points of contention that guided the Protestant Reformation!

Welcome to the forums.

You are correct, but you will find many Protestants here who will tell Catholics that the Catholic interpretation is wrong while they assert they have the correct interpretation. That’s the same thing as infallible and it’s assuming an authority not given in scriptures. For example, I have challenged several to please provide an instance where any individual in scriptures appointed themselves to a position of authority. No one in scriptures appointed or ordained themself.

Part of reading scripture for self instead of somone elses interpretation of it comes from recent discoveries which illustrated text manipulation by our Christian forfathers. See below example.

  1. And Jesus said unto them, Ye have heard what men in the world say concerning me, but whom do ye say that I am? Peter rose up with Andrew his brother and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, who descendeth from heaven and dwelleth in the hearts of them who believe and obey unto righteousness. And the rest rose up and said, each after his own manner, These words are true, so we believe.
  2. And Jesus answered them saying, Blessed are ye my twelve who believe, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you, but the spirit of God which dwelleth in you. I indeed am the way, the Truth and the Life; and the Truth understandeth all things.
  3. All truth is in God, and I bear witness unto the truth. I am the true Rock, and on this Rock do I build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it, and out of this Rock shall flow rivers of living water to give life to the peoples of the earth.
  4. Ye are my chosen twelve. In me, the Head and and Corner stone, are the twelve foundations of my house builded on the rock, and on you in me shall my Church be built, and in truth and righteousness shall my Church be established.
  5. And ye shall sit on twelve thrones and send forth light and truth to all the twelve tribes of Israel after the Spirit, and I will be with you, even unto the end of the world.
  6. But there shall arise after you, men of perverse minds who shall through ignorance or through craft, suppress many things which I have spoken unto you, and lay to me things which I never taught, sowing tares among the good wheat which I have given you to sow in the world.
  7. Then shall the truth of God endure the contradiction of sinners, for thus it hath been, and thus it will be. But the time cometh when the things which they have hidden shall be revealed and made known, and the truth shall make free those which were bound.
  8. One is your Master, all ye are brethren, and one is not greater than another in the place which I have given unto you, for ye have one Master, even Christ, who is over you and with you and in you, and there is no inequality among my twelve, or their fellows.
  9. All are equally near unto me. Strive ye not therefore for the first place, for ye are all first, because ye are the foundation stones and pillars of the Church, built on the truth which is in me and in you, and the truth and the law shall ye establish for all, as shall be given unto you.
  10. Verily when ye and your fellows agree together touching anything in my Name, I am in the midst of you and with you.
  11. Woe is the time when the spirit of the world entereth into the Church, and my doctrines and precepts are made void through the corruption of men and of women. Woe is the world when the Light is hidden. Woe is the world when these things shall be.

For more on this testimony see the below links.

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/Gospel%20of%20perfect%20life%20-%20Holy%2012.pdf

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/Gospel%20of%20perfect%20life%20-%20Holy%2012.pdf

I am sorry to say, I am not reading 105 page document that does not identify the author, nor any sources used to compile the information.

Let me ask you a couple of questions Todd. What Church are you affliated with and do you believe that the Bible is inspired word of God? Also, please explain your view of how the Bible came to be the complete book we have today.

I believe the bible is Roman doctrine assembled by Rome over the course of many years and several councils. I believe Prophecy (Testimony of Jesus) is scripture that can never be broken and written portions of those words are still intact in our bibles. Even though men in some cases did not record what Christ spoke correctly. as in the case of

Matt 16:21 VS Mark 8:31 Only one of those verses is the good seed sown by Christ and one is bad seed sown in the night in the same field by our Christian forfathers who manipulated testimony.

The bible states that the word is God but no where in the bible does it say that the bible is the Word. To make this statement is to make a false God (idol) and a very dangerous statement to make if we want to live.

It’s the stuborn pride of many who by their traditions will grieve the Holy Spirit and say i’m not testing all things and keeping that which is good even though my master said we should do this. The purpose of the first link is to establish credibility of the information at the second link.

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/death%20and%20resurrection%20time%20line.pdf

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/Gospel%20of%20perfect%20life%20-%20Holy%2012.pdf

regarding where I found the information will be evident if you take the time to view the material that has visably shaken you based on the reply you sent to me wanting to hear me re-affirm the bible is a roman tradition which we can thank Rome for.

The information is not an attempt to uproot the bible or do away with it… but understand what is actually there and why. 2000 years of Christian history tells us that the prophecies you just read are true… and if you have the courage to walk through the vally of earths christian history you will take time to read the information shared

It’s not shared as a challenge to any denominational doctrine… just an eye opener that Christ is revealing things in our day for a reason.

God Bless

And the church you are affiliated with?

as far as a physical church body on this earth… there is not one that can save a single man… especially if the informatoin on page 34 has been credibly provent to be ancient in origens which the first link establishes with great credibility.

The spiritul body (congregation) will be those who speak according to the Law and testimony. All denominations today speak according to the bible… and all speak differently… even Catholics for the same topic… it’s because this prophecy is fulfilled.

Jeremiah 16: 19-20
19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress, My refuge in the day of affliction, The Gentiles shall come to You From the ends of the earth and say, “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, Worthlessness and unprofitable things.” 20 Will a man make gods for himself, Which are not gods?

pseudepigrapha.com/apocrypha_nt/episaps.htm
verse 50
And he said unto us: There shall come forth another doctrine, and a confusion, and because they shall strive after their own advancement, they shall bring forth an unprofitable doctrine. And therein shall be a deadly corruption (of uncleanness), and they shall teach it, and shall turn away them that believe on me from my commandments and cut them off from eternal life. But woe unto them that falsify this my word and commandment, and draw away them that hearken to them from the life of the doctrine and separate themselves from the commandment of life: for together with them they shall come into everlasting judgment.

To debate me is a wast of both our time… you should learn about me and why I sent you the infomation that has been sent. the information illustrates the current state of mankind as a whole.

In short it will humble the world to see why God allowed the information to surface. and bring an end to the great falling away.

untill the outpouring of the holy spirit begins again… we are all Catholic… God can only see two denominations on earth… Wheat or Tares which he will divide at the harvest… .Which do we belong to if we can speak according to the bible, but know nothing of the Law and testimony.

V/R

Todd

Ok, can you give everyone the cliffnotes version? I seriously don’t wanna weed through
100+ pages.

You are correct, but you will find many Protestants here who will tell Catholics that the Catholic interpretation is wrong while they assert they have the correct interpretation. That’s the same thing as infallible and it’s assuming an authority not given in scriptures. For example, I have challenged several to please provide an instance where any individual in scriptures appointed themselves to a position of authority. No one in scriptures appointed or ordained themself.

I would differentiate between disagreeing on interpretation — including denying other interpretations — and claiming infallibility. If I have one interpretation of Scripture in which you see a flaw in logic, or that contradicts a more plain reading of another passage, you would not need to claim infallibility in order to point out the flaw. If I said something really outrageous (“Psalms 14:1 says that ‘there is no God’!”), you wouldn’t need a claim to infallibility to say that I’m flat-out wrong.

As for the boundaries of Scriptural authority, the doctrine of sola scriptura does not extend to the idea that all aspects of Protestant religious practice must derive from Scripture. The doctrine only applies to beliefs that are considered infallible. The ordination of ministers, to Protestants, is purely a matter of what best fits the needs of their church. They no more require a Scriptural precedent than Catholics need a Scriptural example of the Sign of the Cross.

Thank you for your welcome! :slight_smile:

I am not shaken by the links you provided. I have read parts of the pseudepigrapha and NT apocrypha before. While some are edifying for personal use, many of those writings were rejected when the canon of the Bible was defined by the Catholic Church. Some were gnostic writings and some were forgeries.

I scanned the pdf you provided links too and find an unidentified document, without an author named or sources highly suspicious and put no value in it because of that. Anyone can write anything they want and post it on the internet.

Now, please identify your Church affliation.

Yeah read pahe 44, it claims that some popes are representatives of satan (doing the beasts work etc)because certain latin letters make the bdevils number. Enough said! Just another hollow dig at the pope and his church. there’s no truth to it, just someone’s twisted and sick interpretation.

The overall presentation at the link is mine, i have developed it over the course of 2 years while seeking to learn from the Holy spirit which is what the Roman Gospel teach us to do. Like many I have studied my way out of the bible just as Rome has.

I am now directed to share what I have learned with any who are willing to read and understand why Christians who all want to love God and serve him are divided today.

Does the Prodastant love God any less than the Catholic because they are not catholic or do they follow the tradition of their parent?

Does the muslim love God any less because they are not Christian or do they follow the tradition they are raised in?

The world is in a state of confusion built on the traditions of men and no one is solid which is what Christ promised. The information he is revealing will help to re-establish a solid understanding of him and what he taught. He had to fulfill the spiritual famine prophecies because he spoke them. they are scripture that can never be broken even if they were taken out of the bible by our Roman forfathers.

as far as the information at this link:

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/death%20and%20resurrection%20time%20line.pdf

The bible verses illustrated are of course Roman in authorship in their current state.

The historical references illustrated also have links to reference where they came from. The many historical references are from early christian history so they are from your forfathers and my forfathers.

Remember not to uproot what you believe to be tares or you uproot the wheat. God will divide at the harvest.

V/R

Todd

I think it is interesting that it took to page 44 before you found a perceptional flaw that could be argued against. Every page of testimony prior to that page builds on the understanding that as history unfolds what is presented is a reality.

it’s not a jab at Rome or the church… just an illustration of history fulfilliing prophecy as it unfolds.

There is much the Christian world needs to learn about the Lord if they want to claim to know him. Right now many only know of Him. The bible gives bits and peices of half truths about Him… it’s not until the spirit enters us that we will know Him and have communication with the Parent.

Todd,

Let me explain my view of agreeing and disagreeing between Churches and the Holy Spirit. Some Protestants refer to agreements as “essentials” and those areas they disagree on as “non-essentials”. In my opinion, those areas where everyone agrees, or essentials, is from the Holy Spirit. Non-essentials between Protestant faiths are not, as the Holy Spirit cannot lie and cannot tell contradicting multiple truths to different individuals.

I did not include the Catholic Church in comparing non-essentials, because I believe the Catholic Church is the Church Christ built and promised to be with until the consummation of the world. The same Church Christ said, “…and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” To accept your view, is to deny Christ’s promises and power to fulfill His word.

We know about the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, between 1947 and 1956. There was a great excitement among many who thought, now we are going to show the Church for what it is and they began researching the documents. Years went by and we’ve heard nothing. Why is this? From the research performed, they found the Church was on target, that is the documents confirmed what the Church was teaching.

The pseudepigrapha link you provided is not working and neither is mine. Mine was to an LDS website, was yours? Even the Mormons identified some writings as gnostic. Some of those writings include such writings as the Gospel of Judas (Iscariot). I think it would be dangerous to put a lot of stock into them.

You are 100% correct, the world is confused. People have left the true church (cathloic) because of erraneous teaching both from within the church and from people outside the church. This is nothing new. You spent the last 2 years putting this document together? the church ahs been around for 2000 years. Just read some of the stuff in “your paper”, a lot of that was condemned as heresy and forgeries by the early church fathers. So your sources are flawed and so is your interpretation.

if your interested in speaking directly to God and receiving an answer. Figure out which one of these verses Christ actually spoke.

John 20:21-2321 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Lection LXXXVII
6. Then saith Jesus unto them again, Peace be unto you, as Abba Amma hath sent me, even so send I you. And when he had said this he breathed on them and said unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost; preach the Gospel, and announce ye unto all nations; the resurrection of the Son of Man. 7. Teach ye the holy law of love which I have delivered unto you. And whosoever forsake their sins, they are remitted unto them, and whosoever continue in their sins they are retained unto them.
8. Baptize them who believe and repent, bless and anoint them, and offer ye the pure Oblation of the fruits of the earth, which I have appointed unto you for a Memorial of me.

you’ll notice the second verses start with Lection. This verse was circulated by Rome at one point in early Christian history and regarded as testimony of Jesus.

God Bless

“Years went by and we’ve heard nothing. Why is this? From the research performed, they found the Church was on target, that is the documents confirmed what the Church was teaching.”

There is a great deal of controversy regarding the dead sea scrolls. Look up Female holy spirit on Google to see what is yeilded. then see what this has to say. this is very consistant with what the dead sea scrolls reveal.

  1. And one of them said, Master, it is written of old, The Alohim made man in Their own image, male and female created They them. How sayest thou then that God is one? And Jesus said unto them, Verily, I said unto you, In God there is neither male nor female and yet both are one, and God is the Two in One. He is She and She is He. The Alohim—our God—is perfect, Infinite, and One. 3. As in the man, the Father is manifest, and the Mother hidden; so in the woman, the Mother is manifest, and the Father hidden. Therefore shall the name of the Father and the Mother be equally hallowed, for They are the great Powers of God, and the one is not without the other, in the One God. 4. Adore ye God, above you, beneath you, on the right hand, on the left hand before you, behind you, within you, around you. Verily, there is but One God, Who is All in All, and in Whom all things do consist, the Fount of all Life and all Substance, without beginning and without end.5. The things which are seen and pass away are The manifestations of the unseen which are eternal, that from the visible things of Nature ye may reach to the invisible things of the Godhead; and by that which is natural, attain to that which is spiritual.6. Verily, the Alohim created man in the divine image male and female, and all nature is in the Image of God, therefore is God both male and female, not divided, but the Two in One, Undivided and Eternal, by Whom and in Whom are all things, visible and invisible. 7. From the Eternal they flow, to the Eternal they return. The spirit to Spirit, soul to Soul, mind to Mind, sense to Sense, life to Life, form to Form, dust to Dust. 8. In the beginning God willed and there came forth the beloved Son, the divine Love, and the beloved Daughter, the holy Wisdom, equally proceeding from the One Eternal Fount; and of these are the generations of the Spirits of God, the Sons and Daughters of the Eternal.

This can be found in the link study on page 26

mankind has forgotten that they two are divine just as Christ was divine. What made Christ special is that he showed us how to walk in the ways of the parent to be counted among the children of God.

I have to goto bed… Have a very blessed night. It was fun talking to future angels. Seek God diligently till you can hear his voice. this was Christ’s promise to you.

God bless

the sources are history It’s what exhisted then that defined their perceptions which should be of interest especially since this is testimony from a bishop. I’m sure your familiar with the definition of bishop and that no dummy gets to be in that position.

Reference: bombaxo.com/didascalia.html
Didascalia Apostolorum
*
-[v. 13] Wherefore, when you fast, pray and intercede for [181]] them that are lost; as we also did when our Savior suffered.* [v. 14]* For while He was yet with us before He suffered, as we were eating the Passover with Him, He said to us: To-day, in this night, one of you will betray me. (p. 88) And we said unto Him, each one of us: Is it I, Lord? And he answered and said to us: He that putteth forth his hand with me into the dish [Mk 14.30; Mt 26.21-23 (Mk 14.18-20)]. And Judas Iscariot, who was one of us, rose up and went his way to betray Him [cf. Jn 13.30]. Then our Lord said to us: Verily I say unto you, a little while and ye will leave me; for it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the lambs of his flock shall be scattered [Jn 16.32; Mt 26.31; Mk 14.27]. And Judas came with the scribes and with the priests of the people, and betrayed our Lord Jesus.
-Now this was done on the fourth day of the week. For when we had eaten the Passover on the third day of the week at even, we went forth to the Mount of Olives; and in the night they seized our Lord Jesus. And the next day, which was the fourth of the week, He remained in ward in the house of Caiaphas the high priest. And on the same day the chiefs of the people were assembled and took counsel against Him. And on the next day again, which was the fifth of the week, they brought Him to Pilate the governor. And He remained again in ward with Pilate the night after the fifth day of the week. But when it drew on (towards day) on the Friday, [182]] they accused him much [Mk 15.3] before Pilate; and they could show nothing that was true, but gave false witness against Him. And they asked Him of Pilate to be put to death; and they crucified Him on the same Friday.
-He suffered, then, at the sixth hour on Friday. And these hours wherein our Lord was crucified were reckoned a day. And afterwards, again, there was darkness for three hours; and it was reckoned a night. And again, from the ninth hour until evening, three hours, (reckoned) a day. And afterwards again, (there was) the night of the Sabbath of the Passion. – But in the Gospel of Matthew it is thus written: At even on the sabbath, when the first day of the week drew on, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the tomb. And there was a great earthquake: for an angel of the Lord came down and rolled away the stone [Mt 28.1-2]. – And again (there was) the day of the Sabbath; and then three hours of the night after the Sabbath, wherein our Lord slept. And that was fulfilled which He said: The Son of man must pass three days and three nights in the heart of the earth [Mt 12.40], as it is written in the Gospel. And again it is written in David: Behold, thou hast set my days in measure [Ps 38.6 LXX]. Now because those days and nights came short, it was so written. [183]]

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