Protesters Riot in Greece Against Obama's Visit


Protesters clash with riot police during a demonstration against President Barack Obama’s visit to Athens on Nov. 15, 2016.

Greek police say about 3,000 anarchists, left-wing activists and students marched through central Athens.

There’s a strong anti-American tradition among Greek left-wingers, who still resent U.S. support for Greece’s 1967-74 military dictatorship.

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During the trip, the outgoing president has repeatedly referred to the anger that lately brought success to populist movements in Europe and the United States, such as the Brexit referendum and Trump’s shock victory last week.

In comments Tuesday Obama cautioned the world must guard against “a rise in a crude sort of nationalism or ethnic identity or tribalism that is built around an ‘us’ and a ‘them.’”

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I’m still a bit baffled by this. For Greeks to focus their ire on Obama just seems a bit misplaced to me. And for what? Because he’s an internationalist? But he really has no control over anything that happens in Greece.


maybe since he is the outgoing president?..:shrug: maybe they are glad to see him go…?


Anarchists and troublemakers in general will always find something somewhere to kick up a huge stink about. The name of the game.


You will agree, then, that the “protestors” currently “kicking up a huge stink” in the US over Trump’s election are, likewise, “anarchists and troublemakers?” :thumbsup:

Or are they exceptions to your “general” rule?

On the other hand, perhaps given Obama’s affinities towards globalism and Greece’s ties to the EU, the protestors merely presume they don’t have much of a nation anymore since it is and will continue to be just one big borderless polity – and that presumption is what they are protesting against.


So all anarchists stir up trouble, so everyone stirring up trouble is an anarchist?

All whales are mammals. Thus, all mammals are whales.

Now that I can put my auto-targeting fallacy sniper …

Could someone actually from Greece give us at the loverly Forum a quick rundown of the Greek … situation?


A lot of those Greek protesters are on the far-left, I wouldn’t bother claiming them for any kind of right-wing nationalist “anti-globalist” agenda. A lot of people on the left hate the EU because they recognise it as being a neo-liberal entity. Look at how it and the IMF forced austerity on Greece. They partly blame the US for these austerity measures they were forced to implement by their creditors.

[Party leader Panayiotis Lafazanis also blamed the US for Greece’s economic woes. The debt-crippled country depends on international bailout loans, and has been forced by its creditors to implement deep income cuts, tax hikes, welfare cuts and economic reforms.

“American imperialism has not changed,” Lafazanis said Tuesday. “The US presidents and administrations have played - and still play - a leading part in the bailout-linked plundering of our country … and their interventions are drowning our part of the world in blood and creating refugee waves.”](“”)

I imagine a lot of those protesters aren’t too bothered by the idea of open borders, and I’d imagine many of them are against the concept of borders entirely. There’s a relatively strong and militant anarchist/communist/far-left movement in Greece.


I see. A case of the left paying due respect and honour to its own, then?



Around the time that was going on, refugees were attacking Greeks on the island of Chios


Highly unlikely.

These are predominantly anarchist, Syriza and communist radicals who support overthrowing all sovereign states to create a universal, borderless “free” proletariat society - last time I checked. They believe that there is no need for civil governments at all.

They are opposed to Obama and the EU not because of any aversion to globalism, open borders or longing to restore their national identity. Quite the contrary, they know all too well that Obama is a pro-free trader and that the EU is founded upon the principles of liberal, market-friendly economics - the nemesis of their far-left fantasies.

As such, yes, I really have very little sympathy for their cause and neither should anyone on the sane left/right spectrum of U.S. politics. They should be able to protest all they like, however, provided they do so with respect to the law.


Next stop…Germany

Trump election: Obama meets Merkel on farewell visit to Germany

Mr Obama and Mrs Merkel have forged a strong partnership over the years, even surviving the revelation that American spies had listened to her mobile phone calls.
He has called her “probably… my closest international partner”.

’Love is flying out of a window’: German media’s reaction
German media have adopted an elegiac tone in their coverage of Mr Obama’s visit, noting that the close relationship between the outgoing US president and the German chancellor is unlikely to be repeated with Mr Obama’s successor.


‘Pure hatred’: Translator reveals how Muslim refugees want to ‘Islamize’ Germany

A translator at refugee camps in Germany has claimed Muslim migrants hate Christians and want to Islamize the country.

The woman, 39, from Eritrea, came to Germany as a refugee herself in 1991, before volunteering at asylum centers to “give something back.”

But the Arabic speaker said what she discovered when working with migrants over the last five years shocked her.

During her time at a number of centers across the country, she said she discovered Muslim refugees preaching “pure hatred” of Christians.

These travel stops mean something in light of what is happening. First Greece and now Germany. Collectively it all translates to something.


Obama isn’t left-wing. The EU is not left-wing. You would hope that looking at the state of international politics, or at least the left in a country like Greece, would break people out of this very American Info Wars-esque bubble that some Americans are stuck in. American politics are incredibly right-wing, even the Democrats. The left hate Obama because he isn’t left-wing.

Obama isn’t left-wing, the EU isn’t left-wing, and communism will never be imposed by establishment neo-liberals like the Democrat party but exists in many countries as a working-class social force. It will never, ever, be imposed by the American government. It doesn’t even make sense. Why would people that make their living through and whose careers are based on American imperialist capitalism want to undermine it?


Because socialism is even less egalitarian than is capitalism. And besides, the elites of socialism have real power, not the contested and shaky power they have in this country.


Socialism would be power concentrated in the hands of the average person. It would involve common ownership of the means of production, as opposed to the private ownership we have, which is power concentrated in the hands of a minority rather than the general population. This is not something the Democrats or their capitalist backers would support. Look at those who funded Hillary.


I don’t believe socialism has ever existed, then, if that’s what it is.

Socialism in practice is power and resources concentrated into the hands of even fewer people than is the case with capitalism. It’s very expensive, requiring payment of too many thugs to keep the populace under control.


It hasn’t, really. Besides in perhaps some very short-lived anarchist communities which were defeated by the forces of capitalist reaction, it’s only existed in a perverse, degenerated form, as happened in places like the USSR.

Socialism is socialism. It’s either what I’ve described or a perversion of what I described, and not socialism. The fact is that capitalism is unsustainable, and will be replaced eventually. Greece is probably the prime example of this, and things are getting worse elsewhere in the world. Trump is also a symptom of the decline of capitalism - a reaction to the neo-liberal status quo.

closed #18

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