Proud, Haughty, Arrogant repeatedly mentioned in Bible, Homosexuality hardly ever


#1

In reading Psalms, Proverbs, and the Gospels, I see that there are repeated references to the proud, the mighty, the haughty. It is an ongoing Biblical theme. Christ will scatter the proud, cast down the mighty and lift up the lowly.

On the other hand, sexual matters are not overly emphasized. Homosexuality is mentioned a few times, but it’s not a reccurent theme whatsoever.

But, it seems as if a lot of Christians worry a lot about the sexual sins of others. All the while, many adulate powerful media personalities or political leaders.

Don’t get me wrong, I think sexual purity is one important aspect of the spiritual life. But I see some hypocrisy and incongruity here. Any thoughts?


#2

Perhaps because pride, might, haughtiness, etc., can manifest itself in a variety of ways…People can murder out of pride and might; people can be uncharitable because of pride, etc.; perhaps sexual sins manifest themselves because of the sinful state of the soul…

Fiat


#3

[quote=Fiat]Perhaps because pride, might, haughtiness, etc., can manifest itself in a variety of ways…People can murder out of pride and might; people can be uncharitable because of pride, etc.; perhaps sexual sins manifest themselves because of the sinful state of the soul…

Fiat
[/quote]

perhaps. And perhaps we need to better address the headwaters of many sins to at least the same degree we try to dam the tributary downstream.


#4

Sometimes it might be pride and arrogence that motivates us to comment on sins which pose no temptation for us personally?


#5

[quote=katherine2]perhaps. And perhaps we need to better address the headwaters of many sins to at least the same degree we try to dam the tributary downstream.
[/quote]

Sodomy and fornication are a tsunami. The BVM, at Fatima, said souls fall into hell like leaves from a tree do to sins of the flesh.


#6

[quote=WhiteDove]In reading Psalms, Proverbs, and the Gospels, I see that there are repeated references to the proud, the mighty, the haughty. It is an ongoing Biblical theme. Christ will scatter the proud, cast down the mighty and lift up the lowly.

On the other hand, sexual matters are not overly emphasized. Homosexuality is mentioned a few times, but it’s not a reccurent theme whatsoever.

But, it seems as if a lot of Christians worry a lot about the sexual sins of others. All the while, many adulate powerful media personalities or political leaders.

Don’t get me wrong, I think sexual purity is one important aspect of the spiritual life. But I see some hypocrisy and incongruity here. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

homosexual is a modern word. It would certainly not be found in translations of ancient texts often. It’s in there though, the key is to look for references to peoples, such as the Greeks, who practiced this and read the moral judgments of the particular biblical author. It’ll not be spelled out as we would in our modern culture, but it’s in there. Look for words such as “unnatural”, “lie”, “abomination” and so on.


#7

[quote=WhiteDove]In reading Psalms, Proverbs, and the Gospels, I see that there are repeated references to the proud, the mighty, the haughty. It is an ongoing Biblical theme. Christ will scatter the proud, cast down the mighty and lift up the lowly.

On the other hand, sexual matters are not overly emphasized. Homosexuality is mentioned a few times, but it’s not a reccurent theme whatsoever.

But, it seems as if a lot of Christians worry a lot about the sexual sins of others. All the while, many adulate powerful media personalities or political leaders.

Don’t get me wrong, I think sexual purity is one important aspect of the spiritual life. But I see some hypocrisy and incongruity here. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

homosexual is a modern word. It would certainly not be found in translations of ancient texts often. It’s in there though, the key is to look for references to peoples, such as the Greeks, who practiced this and read the moral judgments of the particular biblical author. It’ll not be spelled out as we would in our modern culture, but it’s in there. Look for words such as “unnatural”, “lie”, “abomination”, “lust” and so on.


#8

The root of sexual sin, like all sin is an internal defect in the personality of the person. For the most part, this is pride but can also be vanity and or sensuality.

Many in the U.S. are too proud to think the Church (whose sole purpose for existence is to save souls) knows best about behavior that will or will not result in eternal life is the root of a lot.

So it is easy to see pride as a root defect in communities that promote sin.

Take individual with an unnatural attraction to the same sex. Pride manifests itself most bluntly in Gay Pride Day (where one shows pride by sharing publicly their preferred sexual behavior). Or that it is ok to wallow in same sex attraction because “God made them that way”, again pride. There are innumerable forms of genetic defects and most people want them corrected or at least they do not exploit an injury as a justification for sin. Or the concept that one good deed (say being a foster parent) trumps a big sin (say fornication). All aspects of pride.

The exact same thing can be said about co-habitation, pornography, ignoring the poor, contempt for the leadership of the Church, etc.

The root of all grave sin is the concept that “I know more than God and or his Church about (insert favorite sin here).”

So there is no hypocrisy. Just the same defect (pride) being manifested by different behavior (some sexual, some by displaced adulation).


#9

Ooo good post WhiteDove. I agree with you!

I think people think about sex a lot! That’s probably why so many Catholics think it is soooo important.


#10

Dear Chuck,
I never said that you couldn’t find references to it. Did you read my post? Have you read proverbs, psalm, etc? There is a reccurent Biblical theme regarding the rich, powerful, proud and arrogent. This is often overlooked by Christians, who are only too quick to comment and fret over the sexual sins of others. In fact, most Christians are just as interested in reading People Magazine than the next person. Or they put some of our Political leaders up on a pedestal.

So, who do you think the proud and the powerful are? In reciting the morning prayer today, I saw them mentioned yet again.


#11

[quote=WhiteDove]Dear Chuck,
This is often overlooked by Christians, who are only too quick to comment and fret over the sexual sins of others. In fact, most Christians are just as interested in reading People Magazine than the next person. Or they put some of our Political leaders up on a pedestal.

[/quote]

You sure about this? My religious friends don’t seem that taken with celebs or politicians. In fact it’s my non-believing friends and relatives that get all taken up with the world. Just anecdotal of course, but then my anecdotes trump your vague generations and assumptions IMHO.


#12

[quote=Daniel Kane]The root of sexual sin, like all sin is an internal defect in the personality of the person. For the most part, this is pride but can also be vanity and or sensuality.

Many in the U.S. are too proud to think the Church (whose sole purpose for existence is to save souls) knows best about behavior that will or will not result in eternal life is the root of a lot.

So it is easy to see pride as a root defect in communities that promote sin.

Take individual with an unnatural attraction to the same sex. Pride manifests itself most bluntly in Gay Pride Day (where one shows pride by sharing publicly their preferred sexual behavior). Or that it is ok to wallow in same sex attraction because “God made them that way”, again pride. There are innumerable forms of genetic defects and most people want them corrected or at least they do not exploit an injury as a justification for sin. Or the concept that one good deed (say being a foster parent) trumps a big sin (say fornication). All aspects of pride.

The exact same thing can be said about co-habitation, pornography, ignoring the poor, contempt for the leadership of the Church, etc.

The root of all grave sin is the concept that “I know more than God and or his Church about (insert favorite sin here).”

So there is no hypocrisy. Just the same defect (pride) being manifested by different behavior (some sexual, some by displaced adulation).
[/quote]

One of the best posts I’ve seen on the subject. I hope everyone reads this at least twice.

If you get to the ROOT of the sin, rather than the outward manifestation, you see a lot of common ground whether the sin is a sexual practice or stealing something. It is a ‘worship of false gods’ which may be demonstrated in elevating one’s sexual proclivities above all else in life. Or it might be in elevating money or status to a godlike status. Being proud, haughty or arrogant is elevating oneself above God. Sins are just same song, different verse.

Lisa N

Lisa N


#13

In fact, most Christians are just as interested in reading People Magazine than the next person.

The question to ask is, should Christians be cut off from the world. If we are, then they say we are in a cult.

Or they put some of our Political leaders up on a pedestal.


Oh yes, I find it most disgusting that this current president uses God to get the advantage. He’s a rat as all politicians are but to use God’s name for personal gain, to me, is sickening.


#14

[quote=Lilyofthevalley]In fact, most Christians are just as interested in reading People Magazine than the next person.

The question to ask is, should Christians be cut off from the world. If we are, then they say we are in a cult.

Or they put some of our Political leaders up on a pedestal.


Oh yes, I find it most disgusting that this current president uses God to get the advantage. He’s a rat as all politicians are but to use God’s name for personal gain, to me, is sickening.
[/quote]

Quite honestly Lily that is a VERY offensive statement. Regardless of your political leanings, to presume to know someone’s faith or to presume that a manisfestation of faith is merely for personal gain is to tie into this thread, rather presumptuous. Do you really presume to know what is in President Bush’s heart? Isn’t that a rather arrogant posture? How charitable is it to call someone a ‘rat’? IOW I think you make our point. Pride, arrogance and haughtiness are very hard to overcome.

FWIW even President Bush’s detractors believe that his faith is sincere and predated his involvement with national politics.

Lisa N


#15

[quote=Lisa N]Quite honestly Lily that is a VERY offensive statement. Regardless of your political leanings, to presume to know someone’s faith or to presume that a manisfestation of faith is merely for personal gain is to tie into this thread, rather presumptuous. Do you really presume to know what is in President Bush’s heart? Isn’t that a rather arrogant posture? How charitable is it to call someone a ‘rat’? IOW I think you make our point. Pride, arrogance and haughtiness are very hard to overcome.

FWIW even President Bush’s detractors believe that his faith is sincere and predated his involvement with national politics.

Lisa N
[/quote]

Well, look at the fruits of his faith. Deceit, death, destruction. Some faith. Too bad it’s overcome by his pride.

Scullinius


#16

You would have to go pretty far to find anyone to beat the Gay_Lesbian political action groups for haughtiness, pride and arrogance, and general in-your-faceness.


#17

Good post. One need only read the Gospels (especially John) to see that Jesus treated sexual sinners in a different manner than the arrogant, especially those in authority. This is not to say he dismissed sexual sinners without pointing out their sin, only that those sins seemed to carry shame enough to suffice. Pride is another matter. There are few of us that can truly consider our stinginess and desire for independence before God and not tremble.


#18

[quote=WhiteDove]Dear Chuck,
I never said that you couldn’t find references to it. Did you read my post? Have you read proverbs, psalm, etc? There is a reccurent Biblical theme regarding the rich, powerful, proud and arrogent. This is often overlooked by Christians, who are only too quick to comment and fret over the sexual sins of others. In fact, most Christians are just as interested in reading People Magazine than the next person. Or they put some of our Political leaders up on a pedestal.

So, who do you think the proud and the powerful are? In reciting the morning prayer today, I saw them mentioned yet again.
[/quote]

Sorry to have misunderstood. I think the proud and the powerful are without question the media. Editorial writers and political reporters, editors and “lifestyle” writers, columnists and news editors who filter the stories that best manipulate public opinion to drive their agendas. It’s deceptive, you wouldn’t think they’re among the most powerful if you saw them on the street, because they have no money in many cases. But the power and the pride is all theirs under the guise that they’re some sort of advocate (more like a false advocate) of the will people.

runners-up:
politicians who freely trade morality for more and more power (Ted Kennedy, Pelosi and others come to mind.)
Catholics who create factions and divide parishes to undermine church teachings
Some Muslim clerics who call for acts of violence and become almost gods to their followers
PPFA and others like them, obviously.


#19

[quote=WhiteDove]In reading Psalms, Proverbs, and the Gospels, I see that there are repeated references to the proud, the mighty, the haughty. It is an ongoing Biblical theme. Christ will scatter the proud, cast down the mighty and lift up the lowly.

On the other hand, sexual matters are not overly emphasized. Homosexuality is mentioned a few times, but it’s not a reccurent theme whatsoever.

But, it seems as if a lot of Christians worry a lot about the sexual sins of others. All the while, many adulate powerful media personalities or political leaders.

Don’t get me wrong, I think sexual purity is one important aspect of the spiritual life. But I see some hypocrisy and incongruity here. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

**IMO, sin is sin, the severity of which is not determined by how many times a particular one is mentioned in the bible. Sure, some critics of homosexuality are haughty, proud or hypocritical, but not all. The same goes for some critics of, say, abortion. I see nothing incongruous in condemning the sin of homosexual activity unless it’s done by a person guilty of blatantly and unrepentently committing sins of another sort, and that call gets us into judging what’s in another’s heart. All sin should be viewed as sin and the sinner called to repentance. It’s up to us to deliver the message. The results are up to God. **


#20

[quote=WhiteDove]In reading Psalms, Proverbs, and the Gospels, I see that there are repeated references to the proud, the mighty, the haughty. It is an ongoing Biblical theme. Christ will scatter the proud, cast down the mighty and lift up the lowly.

On the other hand, sexual matters are not overly emphasized. Homosexuality is mentioned a few times, but it’s not a reccurent theme whatsoever.

But, it seems as if a lot of Christians worry a lot about the sexual sins of others. All the while, many adulate powerful media personalities or political leaders.

Don’t get me wrong, I think sexual purity is one important aspect of the spiritual life. But I see some hypocrisy and incongruity here. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Maybe I missed some pervasive campaign to make pride and arrogance the new morality, but I don’t think I did. OTOH, one cannot help but notice that sexual morality is under attack on many fronts, and not just from the pro-homosexual lobby.

Maybe Christians are just more concerned with the obvious problem?

– Mark L. Chance.


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