Prove me wrong please!


#1

I’ve been a practicing catholic for 20 years until recently I’ve decided faith in God is a laughing stock. Before I get started let me throw out a couple of your arguments towards me before hand: (My responses are the *'s)

What people consider evil or suffering is an illusion or unimportant.
*So killing an unborn child is an illusion?

God’s divine plan is good. What we see as evil is not really evil; rather, it is part of a divine design that is actually good. Our
limitations prevent us from seeing the big picture.
*His divine plan was to have millions killed in war for the big picture of people killing off random people in a “war zone”

A related posture holds that no theodicy is needed or even appropriate. God, if he exists, is so far superior to man, that he cannot be judged by man. Man’s assumption that he can tell God what a benevolent and all-powerful god can or cannot do, is mere arrogance.
*Let me say that’s a lie, well because if God is Omnipotent let him smite me right now! (didn’t think so…)

A perfect God is not only good but also evil, since perfection implies no lacking, including not lacking that which is evil. A lacking of evil would imply that there is something external to his all-encompassing perfection. This is related to monistic philosophies such as advaita, or pantheism.
*Right so he created evil, so people could be miserable? He must have a fantastic plan for us!

Evil is the consequence of God giving people free will, or God may intend evil and suffering as a test for humanity. Without the possibility to choose to do good or evil acts humans would lack moral content.
*Again with the evil nonsense. Why would he want us to hurt another or be hurt?

Evil is the consequence, not cause, of people not observing God’s revealed will. Universal reciprocated love would solve most of the problems that lead to the evils discussed here.
*Score one for Free Will apparently, I think he made a mistake.

God’s ultimate purpose is to glorify himself (which, by definition, he alone is infinitely entitled to, without vanity). He allows evil to exist so that humanity will appreciate goodness all the more, in the same way that the blind man healed by Jesus appreciated his sight more so than those around him who had never experienced blindness.
*I can guarantee you that if there was no evil everyone would be happy and not expect anything else. Hence pure euphoria all the time.

God created perfect angels and humans with free will. Some of them began to sin and lost their perfection, which resulted in evil doing and death. For a while God will allow this to continue, so that it can be shown that his creations can not be happy while independent from God. In due time God will restore the people who choose to depend on God to perfection and so bring an end to sin and with it an end to evil.
*I think he messed up with creating evil, the lack of god, why would he want people to not love him if he is all powerful? Does he want people to fight and kill?

God is a righteous judge; people get what they deserve. If someone suffers, that is because they committed a sin that merits such punishment. (This is also known as the just world hypothesis.)
*I’ll go with the unborn babies again or maybe the child who will never see because his mom was on drugs. Man, that baby was a sinner in the womb.( I didn’t know that was possible?)

Evil is one way that God tests humanity, to see if we are worthy of His grace.
*Why should we be tested? Who is to say Heaven and Hell exist? Has anyone seen Heaven/Hell? No proof.

Evil and pain exist in this world only. This world is only a prelude to the afterlife, where no pain will exist. The scales of justice are balanced in the afterlife.
*Refer to the question above.

The world is corrupt and of itself shouldn’t have been created, but the work of Christ (or some savior figure) redeems the world and thus God’s creation of it.
*Doesn’t everyone start out sinless? Isn’t that what he died for? Yet why do we have to go to church and learn what is "wrong?"
If we never knew what was wrong we wouldn’t be sinning, am I right?

Absolute evil is not actually real. Rather, it is only the condition of lack of goodness.
*Waste of time creating something to do wrong.

Evil is relative to good; neither good nor evil could exist without both existing simultaneously.
*I’m pretty sure an omnipotent being could make it work out without evil.

Karma: Evil is caused by past bad deeds, either in one’s current life or one’s previous lives. It is only when this karmic chain of causation is broken that reincarnation ends. This explains why an infant may be born into misery, due to actions that may have been perpetrated in previous lives.
*Doesn’t this contradict with Heaven and Hell?

Atheists resolve the apparent contradiction by rejecting the hypothesized existence of God. Some atheists think that the problem of evil can be used to prove that no gods exist by the method of reductio ad absurdum (proof by contradiction). This method does not prove the non-existence of all gods, rather it is an argument that if such a god exists then he is not both omnipotent and benevolent.
*Finally the correct answer, God is not helping anyone.


#2

Now my life was great until I hit 19. The girl whom everyone thought I was going to marry just randomly died in a car accident when a car drilled her in the drivers side. It was then that I decided one day to not go to class. Now you will tell me that was my fault but if god was real wouldn’t he have helped me out? Well needless to say I failed out of college. My parents don’t trust me anymore because I tried to keep it a secret from them. Right shame on me but would you rather things be happy and keep a secret or someone be disappointed in you and then you yourself feel like a loser who is a failure? Well then I turned 20 met a wonderful girl perfect for me(I’m sure you’ve heard this before). Didn’t work out and yet she still talks to me making me hold on by a string hoping that there was faith in us. Only to shoot me down repeatedly yet continue to play mind games with me.

Well, I decided I would go back to college I saved up money, decided to sign a lease to the apartments.Oh wait, I forgot I spent all that money so I have nothing to pay for it.I have no one willing to help me, I have no credit of any kind, no co-signer for a loan, my job is slowing down because of the winter I work construction. I’m getting ready to be taken to court for this little fee I am supposed to be paying while I can’t afford a lawyer he is going to lie in court and basically told me about it because I paid my first payment in cash and not a check.

Now with 27 days before I turn 21, I’m going to be in debt, my parents will be disappointed in me(again), and I’ll be stuck in my self-destruct mode.

Oh did I mention I have a drug addiction? My drug is: Money. When I have it I spend it, I can’t stop spending it. I’m all show and no save.

Now my quesion is this: If God were supposed to be loving and kind why would he let me do this? No one can help me. Maybe I’m meant to be nothing.


#3

Spacer,

You are having a crisis, and you need some professional help with that.

I hope you will seek out spiritual assistance from your priest and some psychological counseling to deal with the grief and loss you are experiencing.

Confusion, despair, anger at God, self-loathing, all of these things are signals of depression and grief. Please get some help.


#4

You are asking way too many questions at once.

If God constantly interfered with every moment in our lives, it would violate free will. Free will is only free so long as it is uninterfered with. God does not give us free will, but makes our wills free. Same with evil. If it was annihilated the moment it sprung up, there would be no free will. And why do we have free will? So that we may choose. So that we may choose God.


#5

If I really needed the money, I could get it, I’m over the loss of a friend, I’ve come to the conclusion the girl isn’t worth it if she is going to make my life miserable. I was explaining why would god do this? He has not helped me, yet I prayed to jesus christ my savior and to god everyday for 20 years and look where that got me.


#6

Do you have a Bible handy?


#7

Sorry if my answer seems really short as i dont have much time, im sure someone will help you out better, but when im feeling like you are, or in a similar situation, i always try to remember the book of Job, and i feel closer to God.

Peace,
Rob


#8

Other than a second to 1ke’s comment, I’m going to have to bluntly say that you sound like a whiny child. Join the club. Who here hasn’t pulled a tantrum on their Creator because things aren’t going their way? You think that demanding that God strike you dead, yet living despite your command, “proves” that God isn’t omnipotent? sigh


#9

Spacer, it often happens that most people who are befallen with a lot of bad things…need help, and there is no shame in seeking it. Even Jesus needed help carrying his cross, and he was God! Find a real human person to talk to, face to face. If you don’t feel you can approach a priest (which you should) then maybe your doctor can offer some suggestions.


#10

Spacer, please do not despair.

I would ask you to spend some time before God in Eucharistic Adoration and tell Him about what is going on. Then just take some time and listen.

Seek friends, volunteer, join something. You must break any cycle that tends to bring you to anything like depression.

I have a son about the same age as you. If he had your experiences I would do anything for him as long as he doesn’t give up.

I for one will not give up on you. You are in my prayers and please do not discount the power of prayer.

mdcpensive1


#11

Right, the part I forgot to mention is my mom is the religion teacher for Washington Catholic High School. I’ve been struggling in faith to accept a higher power capable of doing all these things my entire life. I am a practicing catholic due to the fact it’s my roots, if you ask me science is the real answer.


#12

Can science answer how the universe began? Can it explain why?


#13

Can anything? I could go with some theories of creation yet it would be the same with God.

How does a billion people believe in a thing such as the easter bunny and worship it?

(Yes, I am comparing god to the easter bunny meaning they are both made up randomly in a thought process.)


#14

No one worships the Easter bunny. The evidence for the easter bunny is finding eggs lying around on Easter morning. For all we know, someone else could have put out the eggs to promote this false belief. The evidence for God is the universe itself. Can you falsify an existant universe for me, in the same way someone could put out a few painted eggs?


#15

I’ll pray for you dear brother. The circumstances of our lives are different but we all have a cross to carry. I probably would have been dead or clinically insane by the age of 21, but for the grace of God. He has saved my life countless times, and I’m only 34.

I can’t prove you wrong. Only God can do that.

I hope you find peace,

Ryan :slight_smile:


#16

So you’re saying this: Before God created the world there was no time and thus no “before.”

I don’t understand how you can expect someone to accept an absurd statement or even fathom something coming from nothing. Why would there be an omnipotent individual just lurking around(Well he couldn’t be lurking if there was nothing)and one day decide to make a universe? How can you even have a thought process like that? The universe is infinite you meaning. Infinite means forever. It just has been here you can’t explain it nor can you say a “god” just made it and that’s your evidence.


#17

So you reject the Big Bang theory? That all of this matter just happens to exist, that it has neither origin nor end? If space is infinite, is matter also? Potentially, could mankind expand forever and never run out of new places to go? If the universe is infinite, then mankind has infinite time in which to expand. So the question becomes, what is infinity divided by infinity?


#18

Spacer,

I will pray for you and your situation. In the meantime pick up a copy of Peter Kreeft’s The Handbook of Christian Apologetics. It’s pretty heady reading but it will dispel all of your arguments against the existence of God.


#19

I don’t reject the big bang theory, but if you knew about string theories you would understand it’s a cycle that has been going on(theoretically)forever. Potentially yes, I mean look as to what we are doing now? We live in space, that has to count for something.
They realized that at one point there was mountains on Mars hence a fresh source of water. Gliese 581 C which is a planet about 50 light years away was found to harbor water. Water produces life as we know it.


#20

Not water alone.


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