Prove To Me That Mormonism Is Wrong


#21

Well, you did ask. So far, you have not show any evidence Mormonism contains any truth in it. Mormonism claim that God comes from another planet. Historical Christianity doesn’t.

If God is unchanging and immutable, he would have mention this to the Jews of the OT. He didn’t.

God in the OT prophecy through his prophets that from Eve’s seed shall come a redeemer. His kings and prophets spoke of a Messiah. They also revealed that God is One. In the fullness of time, God revealed himself to mankind by coming down from heaven and to be born of a virgin Mary. His mission was redeem mankind from our sins. He live, suffer, died and was buried and rose again on the third day. He established a Church, One Church. This Church exist today until the End of Time.

The beliefs of Mormonism is completely foreign to the mind of a Christian. It teaches new doctrines rather than preserve it.


#22

Joseph Smith never claimed to be God, or His Son. He claimed to have had visions, including that a resurrected prophet (Moroni) that led him to a long buried book on metal leaves. Only problem is he didn’t work any miracles to validate his claim of being a recipient of visions. Nor were these “visions” witnessed by hundreds or thousands of people.

Jesus, who claimed to be God, worked public miracles often in view of thousands of people. He raised a dead man to life, restored the vision of a blind man, predicted the destruction of a major city (Jerusalem) and predicted his own death and resurrection, all of which came true.

Joseph Smith did none of these. There was no public validation of any extraordinary spiritual event he claimed. He said it happened and that was it, end of story.

Joseph Smith did not die for your sins. He did not merit the grace to save you, that is, free you from all that oppresses you, especially your sins. He did not merit the grace enabling you to achieve eternal salvation in heaven with God the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. So why listen to him, a man who had to leave town in the dead of night due to arrest warrants and civil suits against him?

I prefer to put my faith in the God-man, Jesus, who has merited the graces to free me from my sins, give me a new vision and experience of life on earth which then can also continue for eternity in heaven, assuming I don’t break my relationship with God by sinning seriously and not repenting. Of course, if I repent, I would have to go to the sacrament of reconciliation since I am a Catholic.

In essence, Mormonism is another one of the thousands of man-made religions founded by a man who couldn’t prove he had any visions or that he received “hidden” metal plates through extraordinary means. He told people these special things happened and many people believed him, even without the evidence to back it up.


#23

***Why the Mormon God the Father is not the Christian God the Father: ***
“God the Father” to a Mormon is not God the Father, first Person of the Holy Trinity, whom Christians confess. He is one of many gods.
The Mormon worships God the Father because he is the god of this planet, but other planets have other gods equal to or even greater than God the Father.
The Mormon “God the Father” had a Father and was once a man on a planet who worshipped his own Father God. He was subsequently exalted to godhood. He has a physical, human body.
It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he too will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet.
The Mormons have a saying: “What man is, God once was; what God is, man will become.” This is polytheism.

Christian answer:
The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made the heavens and the earth; there is no other God; there never has been any other God, nor will there ever be another. (Gen. 1.1; Isaiah 43.10; 44.6,8,24)
God the Father was never a man.
We will never be God.
True Christianity, like Judaism, is monotheistic. As our creed states “We believe in one God.”

Peace,

Ryan :slight_smile:


#24

Proofs only prove when the person for whom they are intended is open to conviction by them - they are useless where one is unwilling to receive them; no matter how compelling or persuasive they may otherwise be.

I don’t for one second believe that the “Book of Abraham” is an authentic Egyptian text from the time of Abraham, let alone a sacred book, so you can’t prove it is to me. :slight_smile:


#25

So Holly…you are willing to submit yourself to believe that you are going to become the god of your own planet?

Upon what will you base that?


#26

It is different for men and women.

Why the Mormon hope is not the Christian hope:
It is the hope of the male Mormon to progress to the point where he will be a god like God the Father and be ruling over his own planet. This is “exaltation”, and depends upon the Mormon “Plan of Eternal Progression”.
The hope of Mormon females depends upon their being married, in a temple ceremony, to a Mormon male who achieves exaltation.
Mormon women married to non-Mormons (“Gentiles”) can arrange for a “temple sealing” (marriage by proxy) to a Mormon male after their death. This is to assure that in eternity they are considered to have been married to and produced their children from a Mormon husband so that they and their children can be exalted.
Mormon males expect to produce offspring in heaven with their mate(s), offspring who will subsequently be sent to populate their planet and achieve their own exaltation to godhood and so on and so on …

Christian answer:
The God of the Bible is the Creator and God of all the universe, of all worlds, not just our planet. He made man for Himself and in His image to be in communion with God and enter into the love of the Holy Trinity.
When man fell into sin and marred the image of God in his own being, the second person of the Trinity became incarnate — taking human nature to Himself.
He then did what He could not do in the form of God — He died to save us from sin and death, so that we could come back into communion with God and share the love of the Holy Trinity. Our hope is to be with God, not to be God (Gen. 1st-3rd; Phil. 2. 5-11).

Peace,

Ryan :slight_smile:


#27

Thanks Ryan…
That’s just weird…

So then basically, no matter what, a Mormon woman is signing on for nothing but a hope of being a “god’s” baby machine on her husband’s world? :ehh:


#28

Apparently!

I don’t know how many Mormon women have considered the logical and philosophical problems with their Plan of Eternal Progression. They are led to believe that their families will be together eternally. But if Mormons become Gods of planets and then their children become Gods of other planets — how do the children and parents get together? Can a God leave his planet unattended while he goes to a celestial family reunion?

Perhaps Mormon women would see greater hope in authentic Christianity if they knew more about our hope for the “new heavens and new earth” in which we know one another in all the relationships of our present lives, in glory for all eternity (2 Pet. 3.13, Rev. 21.1).

Peace,

Ryan :slight_smile:


#29

Mormonism is not wrong. But is has departed from it’s founder’s teachings and evolving so much that if he could come back, he would not recognise it anymore!

:cool:


#30

Why would you ask us to do this, Holly? Are you not happy and satisfied in your faith walk? :shrug:

Personally, I think it is a very bad idea to knock the crutch out from under a lame person. Better to wait until the lameness is healed, and then the person can throw away their own crutch.

I never thought you had a need for it in the first place! However, I must say I am puzzled about why you started it, then bailed right when it started heating up? I also wonder why you are on a Catholic forum. I think you must be getting some need met here. Is there no Mormon forum that can meet your needs?


#31

To Holly wherever she’s gone:

This statement of yours is the basic (and foundational) lie of Mormonism. Jesus Christ, Saviour of all, promised that he built a Church on Peter as rock and that the forces of hell would not prevail against it. Even secular media counted John Paul II (at his death) as a successor of Peter. Have you noticed that the RC Church, founded at Christ’s word on Peter, is still alive and well? Mormons seem to run from the truth. Where have you gone, Holly?


#32

As a note… it is impossible to prove a negative…

What you ask for is for someone to come in and prove to you that your beliefs do not exist in truth…

If you are truly looking for answers, and NOT just trying to say how much better your belief is, it would be more apt to ask on individual issues…

Start with the Trinity, or the belief that there are other planets that Mormons can become gods of.

Something to consider. Assume for a second that the we become gods of other planets is correct. There is a spacial problem that develops…

Lets say for a second that of all the Mormons ever, only 1,000,000 are ‘saved’. Lets further say that of the 1,000,000, only 100,000 receive the right to be a ‘god’. that means that there need to be 100,000 planets with intelligent species without a ‘god’.

Since God must be constant, ever one of those 100,000 planets, lets say only 100,000 are once again produced that are worthy of 'gos status…

Now, you have the following… 1(earth’s God) + 100,000(gods produced on earth) + 100,00^2(gods produced because of gods produced here

continue this logic ad infinitum and you develop an equation for the number of 'gods in a universe. total=100,000^(n-1) where n is the number of ‘generations’

so, for the initial example, there are 3 generations. our god, gods produced here, and gods produced by gods produced here…

now… using this, what happens after only 10 generations

100,000^(10-1)=100,000^(9)= 10^45 planets with gods…

Thats a 1 with 45 zeros behind it…

now… lets say that the average planet size has a diameter of 6000 miles…in otherwords, an average volume of 282743 cubic miles, for one planet…

this would mean there needs to be a minimum volume of 2.82 X 10^50 cubic miles…

the current volume for the universes is 1.14 X 10^23 cubic miles…
( (12.5 billion light years/2)^2 X pi) then converted to cubic miles)

As you can see… in just 10 ‘generations’ the universe has already far beyond run out of space…

and this also assumes that only 100,000 people from each world are eligible for godhood

I know it doesn’t prove that Mormonsim is wrong… but it does provide a logical, and physical problem for why it is may be suspect

In Christ


#33

I don’t know if Mormons use the letters of St Paul but if they do then:

2 Galatians 1

6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema**. **9 As we said before, so now I say again: **If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. **10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.


#34

I am just learning about Mormonism, but to me it seems rather weird that one would be part of a religion that plays out like a video game, with goal or the finish becoming your own god.


#35

This is the question I ask when mormans come to my door: Do you believe that God is more powerful than we could comprend or understand. They answer yes. Then I say that the catholic revelation of God must be the true one, because the God I worship is more powerful than the god you worship. Mine is every where at once, while yours can only be in one place at a time. Mine can create by will, while yours must have relations with a exalted wife. Mine is etenally God and unchanging while yours has a time when he was only a man. Mine is triune. Mine has never sinned while yours did before he was exalted. Logically my God better fits the answer to the initial question.


#36

A mormon comes to a Catholic site, and asks us to dismantle her faith? Why would I do that? Believe what you want. If you were so sure about it, you wouldnt be here. Ask what you really want to know. Either this an an amusing pass time for you or you are being drawn to Catholicism. Which is it?

And to top it all off you attempt to direct the tenor of the debate…LOL…


#37

What kind of proof will convince you? What documents or fundamentals will you accept as authoritative? Until we know this, it is impossible to prove anything.


#38

This may be the shortest debat in Form history.

Post a challenge at 6:40PM pronounce the thread of no value and abandon it at 7:43PM.

Chuck


#39

Holly3278, how long have you been Mormon?


#40

good day all! all i can say is that if you r not serving the true and living god which is jesus christ our lord than you r doomed for the start. the bible says no one goes to the father except by me . one faith one baphtism one GOD!:thumbsup:


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