Proving God to atheists?


#1

How does one prove their is a god to atheists? Once you have prooved their is a god how does one prove Christianity is correct over say Hinduism or Islam? Finally how does one prove Catholicism is the correct denomination in Christianity? If it can't be proved absolutely please prove it to near certainty.


#2

Here is a list of 20 arguments for God.

peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm

They may not work for those who have hardened their heart to avoid God, you will have to rely on the intervention of the Holy Spirit in such cases.


#3

[quote="FireFromHeaven, post:1, topic:312743"]
How does one prove their is a god to atheists?

[/quote]

In a very real way... you can't. You can present your evidence -- and it might be very good evidence (or it might be evidence that's poorly thought-out and poorly presented), but at the end of the day, it's up to them to decide whether the evidence you presented is sufficient to change their minds. (Often, it isn't. :shrug:)

Here's the kicker, though: 'proof' doesn't lead to faith. Faith is something that comes through the Holy Spirit -- you can 'prove' God till you're blue in the face, but if someone doesn't want to believe, they're not going to believe.

Once you have prooved their is a god how does one prove Christianity is correct over say Hinduism or Islam?

If there was a simple proof of God that was fool-proof for the conversion of non-believers, trust me -- someone would have come up with it. They haven't. Instead, you can demonstrate that believe in the existence in God is reasonable, and trust them (and the Holy Spirit working in them) to come to that place of reason...

Finally how does one prove Catholicism is the correct denomination in Christianity? If it can't be proved absolutely please prove it to near certainty.

'correct'? Hmm.

Well, you can demonstrate that Christ intended to found the Church, and that the Church he founded was built on Peter; you can show that the Church that considers itself to have been passed down through Peter is the Catholic Church (and the Orthodox Church). You can also point to apostolic tradition from Peter to today's Catholic Church.

You can demonstrate that Reformation Churches hold doctrines that the early Church did not hold, and that the early Church held doctrines that Reformation Churches do not hold. Finally, you can demonstrate that the doctrines of the early Church are the doctrines of the Catholic Church.


#4

[quote="FireFromHeaven, post:1, topic:312743"]
How does one prove their is a god to atheists? Once you have prooved their is a god how does one prove Christianity is correct over say Hinduism or Islam? Finally how does one prove Catholicism is the correct denomination in Christianity? If it can't be proved absolutely please prove it to near certainty.

[/quote]

CCC:

**
II. The Knowledge of God According to the Church**

36 "Our holy mother, the Church, holds and teaches that God, the first principle and last end of all things,** can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason.**" Without this capacity, man would not be able to welcome God's revelation. Man has this capacity because he is created "in the image of God".

37 In the historical conditions in which he finds himself, however, man experiences many difficulties in coming to know God by the light of reason alone:

Though human reason is, strictly speaking, truly capable by its own natural power and light of attaining to a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, who watches over and controls the world by his providence, and of the natural law written in our hearts by the Creator; yet there are many obstacles which prevent reason from the effective and fruitful use of this inborn faculty. For the truths that concern the relations between God and man wholly transcend the visible order of things, and, if they are translated into human action and influence it, they call for self-surrender and abnegation. the human mind, in its turn, is hampered in the attaining of such truths, not only by the impact of the senses and the imagination, but also by disordered appetites which are the consequences of original sin. So it happens that men in such matters easily persuade themselves that what they would not like to be true is false or at least doubtful.

38 This is why man stands in need of being enlightened by God's revelation, not only about those things that exceed his understanding, but also "about those religious and moral truths which of themselves are not beyond the grasp of human reason, so that even in the present condition of the human race, they can be known by all men with ease, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error".

GOD COMES TO MEET MAN

50** By natural reason man can know God with certainty, on the basis of his works*. **But there is another order of knowledge*, which man cannot possibly arrive at by his own powers: the order of divine Revelation. Through an utterly free decision, God has revealed himself and given himself to man. This he does by revealing the mystery, his plan of loving goodness, formed from all eternity in Christ, for the benefit of all men. God has fully revealed this plan by sending us his beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

I. "Lord, Look Upon the Faith of Your Church"

168 It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith. Everywhere, it is the Church that first confesses the Lord: "Throughout the world the holy Church acclaims you", as we sing in the hymn Te Deum; with her and in her, we are won over and brought to confess: "I believe", "We believe".** It is through the Church that we receive faith and new life in Christ by Baptism. In the Rituale Romanum, the minister of Baptism asks the catechumen: "What do you ask of God's Church?" and the answer is: "Faith."** "What does faith offer you?" "Eternal life."54

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: "We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation."55 Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.


#5

There are so many miracles in the Catholic Church. Look up the miracles at Fatima, Lourdes and Guadelupe. The one at Guadelupe is especially convincing.


#6

[quote="FireFromHeaven, post:1, topic:312743"]
How does one prove their is a god to atheists? Once you have prooved their is a god how does one prove Christianity is correct over say Hinduism or Islam? Finally how does one prove Catholicism is the correct denomination in Christianity? If it can't be proved absolutely please prove it to near certainty.

[/quote]

It is the work of the Holy Spirit in the person's heart that allows that person to find God. God sometimes allows us to help others know Him. It is called Faith. Faith does not have proof.

May God give you the graces to help others in their faith journey.


#7

Thank you all. How can I show that Christianity is more reasonable then Hinduism, Bahai, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism and Buddhism?


#8

[quote="FireFromHeaven, post:1, topic:312743"]
How does one prove their is a god to atheists? Once you have prooved their is a god how does one prove Christianity is correct over say Hinduism or Islam? Finally how does one prove Catholicism is the correct denomination in Christianity? If it can't be proved absolutely please prove it to near certainty.

[/quote]

It's as difficult to convince an Atheist that there is a God (and then the rest of the list, ven more difficult)...as it is difficult to convince a devout Catholic there is no God and that religion is a fantasy, a man-made myth.

An Atheist will have very, very good arguments against each item on that entire list...especially the iffy Pascal's Wager one.
They will say...that you do not lose nothing if you "wager" to believe in God because you do lose something-- an entire lifetime basing your life on a myth and looking to the after life more than life today on this earth.
Also, God Himself--who knows everything--will know that you didn't really believe, but that you just wagered to hedge your bets.

Also, that argument will continue that if you are a good, loving person your entire life and gave to everyone around you with your heart...why then would an all-loving God doom you to hell just because He chose not to give enough evidence to convince you of his existence?

True, some Atheists convert to a religion.
And some religious people become atheist.

I wonder if the stats on both are about equal?

There are so many variables at play as to what makes a person believe what they believe--geography, family, experience, personality...


#9

I know I never use a pascals. It seems to be a poor arguement to me.


#10

I agree that whoever doesn't want to believe will find unreasonable ways not to believe. (Example: I will not believe unless I see an astounding miracle myself.) Sometimes, they will misrepresent and misapply the arguments so that they will appear false (knowingly or unknowingly).

Anyway, Arizona Mike presented the arguments for God.

As for why Christianity is the true religion, Bishop Sheen proposed one reason why in his book "Life of Christ." He argued that Christ is the only founder of religion ever pre-announced. God used a series of prophets spanning thousands of years to prefigure, announce, and prepare for the coming of Christ. Only God could possibly do that, as only he has foresight of the future and control over human history.

The second reason is the witness of the Apostles, the martyrs, and the saints. There is not one, but many witnesses claiming the authenticity of Christ's divinity, miracles, and his teachings, and they have died for this witness. This is historically recorded in the Gospels and other sources and have been faithfully preserved like no other historical document. On the other hand, other religion founders only attest to their own words. Their claims are not accompanied by a miracle as astounding as Christ's resurrection, which was also testified to by many martyrs.

As for why Catholicism, you can examine the coherence of the teachings of different sects and their agreement with what Christ really taught, as evidenced by the Bible and historical documents. You can also examine the reasonableness of their teachings and their implications.

For example, Protestants claim "sola Scriptura," or that the teaching that the Bible alone is enough to teach Christ's teachings. The problem is that readers interpret it differently, each claiming to be inspired by the Holy Spirit even if their interpretations are contradicting. This is different from the united Christianity Christ prayed for in the Gospel of St John.

Sola Scriptura is not enough. We need an authoritative interpreter. Who qualifies more than the legitimate successors of the Apostles who were not only trained directly by them or by successors, but have also been mandated by them to be the rightful teachers of the faith? No other Christian sect claims that unifying teaching authority and apostolic succession except the Catholic Church (which also claims the Primacy of the Pope, the successor of St Peter) It is only through this that the Universal Church can be united.

There are other reasons. I only mentioned some.


#11

in the DVD by Tim Staples - Why Be Catholic

he goes over this exact thing from prove God, to an immortal soul to Christianity to Catholicism - its basic arguments and easy to remember

it will give you a ground to work off if your interested its a good watch

http://shop.catholic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/135x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/why-be-catholic_1.jpg

shop.catholic.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=why+be+Catholic&op.x=0&op.y=0&op=Search


#12

Not sure if this helps, but..........once at a retreat, the speaker was talking about how all of creation is impossible without a maker and designer. The speaker asked for four volunteers to come up, and then he blindfolded two of them. Then, he handed them paper and a few crayons and he asked them to draw the following: a red mouse in the upper right hand corner, a blue tree at the centre of the page, a bird nesting in the tree, some elephants and rabbits on the ground below, and a pool of water to the left of the tree.

Needless to say, the drawings done by the blindfolded volunteers were scarcely recognisable, but those who were able to see what they were drawing had clearer drawings. Thus, the earth and all that is in it must have a designer, because the earth is extremely detailed and it is impossible for it to be blindly designed by the unseen force of evolution. I actually found this speaker's example very neat. :D


#13

Sticky: Temporary Ban on Evolution/Atheism Threads
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