Punishing Countries

I’ve seen a lot lately many things about “God is going to punish America”, you know for abortion, gay marriage, etc…

Is this Catholic teaching that God collectively sends his punishment on nations, cities, etc? Would a good Catholic be protected from, let’s say, a hurricane of God’s wrath?

I’m trying to understand the Catholic teaching on this.

This is NOT a teaching of the Catholic Church. Such comments are only the emotive comments of individuals who don’t like what is happening. It would be better for such people to pray than call on the wrath of God to punish countries or people.

It’s not that people are calling for it, but fearing it… Like Sodom and Gomorrah.

So what is the official teaching on this, maybe from the CCC?

There is no teaching.


God does not stand there waiting for sin so He can send in the floods, tornados, hurricanes and fire. Remember 1 Kings 19

11 “Go out and stand on the mountain,” the Lord replied. “I want you to see me when I pass by.” All at once, a strong wind shook the mountain and shattered the rocks. But the Lord was not in the wind. Next, there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. 12 Then there was a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. Finally, there was a gentle breeze,** 13 and when Elijah heard it, he covered his face with his coat.

God is a loving, gentle God who gives us free will. The consequences of sin and failing to repent is that we separate ourselves from God.

I can think of a lot of disasters where whole cities were destroyed, New Orleans during Katrina, Miami and surrounding cities during Andrew, Jersey shoreline during Sandy. The thing that strikes me is that the poor who where sinned against by indifferent wealthy citizens and negligent political officials were the ones being punished, along with the guilty. If God really wanted to punish the wicked, I don’t think God’s aim would be that bad.

There isn’t a Catholic teaching that says that if a country does thus and so, this will happen. To me, that’s superstition. Frankly, I doubt that God even recognizes different countries, despite all the pomp and circumstance that humans spend on patriotism. However, we know from Scripture that punishing a group of people or even everyone on the earth, isn’t outside of the realm of possibility if we don’t repent. So, I make sure to ask for God’s mercy in my prayers.

Catholic Teaching is quite the opposite:

Bishop Wenski Homily on Respect Life Sunday


I believe he will, in fact, Im actually surprised something didnt happen on the very day the ruling came down, we know God is gentle and caring, but he is also wrathful, mankind has been given warning after warning, thru all the approved apparitions over the years, eventually God will have no choice, its pretty clear in what direction we are heading, so like he did with Sodom and Gomorrah, he will likely do the same thing again. Maybe this would finally make people see what they are doing is wrong and God does not like it…if they see a few cities being destroyed by something only God could do, Im fairly sure they will change their ways!

However, if God does nothing, this is really going to make me question my faith.

So your god gets angry and basically kicks over the chessboard when he doesn’t win? Kinda petty, don’t you think?

Your faith must be pretty weak.

Given the pretty dreadful things happening all over the place, there are obviously a lot of countries a lot naughtier than America.

Maybe He quietly turns His face away from countries who don’t want Him.

But this is the same God who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the same exact thing? Keep in mind, God NEVER changes.

The same God yes, but different dynamics, different terrain. S&G came before His Son came to redeem the world, and offer God’s mercy.

e.g.–God didn’t ‘punish’ America after Roe v. Wade, nor Germany, after the Holocaust, nor Russia, after embracing and spreading Communism (really, its own brutal punishment, but that’s a side point).

IMHO, you (we all, actually) should be damn grateful that God doesn’t administer justice according to the OT, and rather offers mercy, according to the New Covenant.

His Justice will come; it will have its say–Final Say, in the final days.

Unlike some (IMO, overly) confident folks on here, I am quite inundated with my own crosses to bear, and issues to ‘get right’ with God, such that unless the Lord comes immediately after I walk out of a dynamite, comprehensive confession…my final judgment is not something look forward to, but rather approach with “…fear and trembling” (as St. Paul put it).

Judge not lest ye be judged”…

Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us…”.

But remember what happened right before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? He had a conversation with Abraham:

With Abraham walking with them to see them on their way, the men set out from there and looked down toward Sodom. The LORD considered: Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, now that he is to become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth are to find blessing in him? Indeed, I have singled him out that he may direct his children and his household in the future to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD may put into effect for Abraham the promises he made about him. So the LORD said: The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great, and their sin so grave, that I must go down to see whether or not their actions are as bad as the cry against them that comes to me. I mean to find out.

As the men turned and walked on toward Sodom, Abraham remained standing before the LORD. Then Abraham drew near and said: “Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there were fifty righteous people in the city; would you really sweep away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people within it? Far be it from you to do such a thing, to kill the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike! Far be it from you! Should not the judge of all the world do what is just?” The LORD replied: If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake. Abraham spoke up again: “See how I am presuming to speak to my Lord, though I am only dust and ashes! What if there are five less than fifty righteous people? Will you destroy the whole city because of those five?” I will not destroy it, he answered, if I find forty-five there. But Abraham persisted, saying, “What if only forty are found there?” He replied: I will refrain from doing it for the sake of the forty. Then he said, “Do not let my Lord be angry if I go on. What if only thirty are found there?” He replied: I will refrain from doing it if I can find thirty there. Abraham went on, “Since I have thus presumed to speak to my Lord, what if there are no more than twenty?” I will not destroy it, he answered, for the sake of the twenty. But he persisted: “Please, do not let my Lord be angry if I speak up this last time. What if ten are found there?” For the sake of the ten, he replied, I will not destroy it.

The LORD departed as soon as he had finished speaking with Abraham, and Abraham returned home.

Gn 18:16-33

God showed his mercy in stating that he would not destroy Sodom if he could find as few as 10 faithful people there. Yes, God is perfectly just, but he is also infinitely merciful. I know things look bleak for America and the world right now, but there are still millions of faithful people out there trying to live their faith every day and repenting when they fall short. I believe that were we to ask God the same question as Abraham did all those years ago, the response would be the same, “For the sake of the faithful, I will not destroy it.”

True, but that has never mitigated His justice. :slight_smile:

Bishop Wenski is one of my favorite people. He rides a motorcycle and though very compassionate in his dealings with others, he’s also like a K-mart radio…he don’t play.

You may not believe, but that doesn’t change the reality of the universe. Look at it this way…if you created a game like Monopoly, wouldn’t whatever rules you made for it be binding? Anyone not playing by those rules wouldn’t be playing your game would they? They could call it whatever they wanted, but it wouldn’t be the real game would it. The universe functions under the same set of circumstances.

This has been my own thinking for some time now. I believe that our society has only two options.

We can become either Nineveh or we can become Sodom and Gomorrah and I suspect that the faithful are the only thing staying His hand against pretty much all of society. If persecution comes then possibly that may change, but God will never abandon His people.

Weird as he was, Thomas Jefferson spoke well when he said “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.”

Yes, Im familiar with this, so I guess the real question is, How large of a city were Sodom and Gomorrah? I find it hard to believe there was an entire city and NOT ONE righteous person in either…plus, how long did God give from warning to the actual destruction?

Plus, in this debate, we are forgetting that God is God, he can do anything, he could destroy an entire city, yet at the same time, protect any and all the righteous people living there, so they would be the only ones left, to rebuild and start over.

Once a genocidal maniac…

I tend to agree that the Church does not teach this, etc. But to me its beg the question - should we believe (literally) in all the Old Testament accounts (Sodom & Gomorah, all the trials of Israel & Judah, etc)? I sometimes fall into the line of thinking that such things (not just this but many things) happened up until Christ came - he then “changed the equation”, and its not like that anymore. Curious what others think of that…

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