Purgartory discussion

Purgatory- Myth or Fact?

Let’s first look at a few other terms that are common today, but which don’t appear in the bible: Which is by the way, a Catholic Book.

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Even the term “bible” is not found in Holy Writ. The Bible is a Catholic book

Mt. 16:18-19 “Binding and Loosening.”

Mt. 16:18-19 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, {singular; also implying only One set of Faith beliefs}and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever** thou shalt loose **upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

The terms “binding and loosening” are terms of unlimited Powers and authority of Governance, and were commonly used and understood at that time and place. Thus the church is empowered to create terms and definitions. John 17: 18-21 prove this quite clearly.

Christ in choosing Peter to be the New Leader of this New Faith / Church was following OT tradition of always choosing One Man to lead His one chosen people. Noah. Abram, The Judges, Kings like David, and Prophets like Isaiah. Christ empowered Peter and the Apostles with His Own Godly Power and Authority.** Cf. “As the Father sent Me, so TOO I send YOU.” Jn. 17:18**

Mt. 28:18-20 “And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am **with you **all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

PURGATORY. “The place or condition in which the souls of the just are purified after death and before they can enter heaven. They may be purified of the guilt of their venial sins, as in this life, by an act of contrition deriving from charity and performed with the help of grace. This sorrow does not, however, affect the punishment for sins, because in the next world there is no longer any possibility of merit. The souls are certainly purified by atoning for the temporal punishments due to sin by their willing acceptance of suffering imposed by God. The sufferings in purgatory are not the same for all, but proportioned to each person’s degree of sinfulness. Moreover, these sufferings can be lessened in duration and intensity through the prayers and good works of the faithful on earth… FROM Father Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

Reasons for wrong understanding:

Mt. 13: 10-12 “And his disciples {Apostles} came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them in parables? Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given. For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he shall abound: but he that hath not, from him shall be taken away that also which he hath”

Because there is BUT One God; who logically can have ONLY One set of faith believes, & Founded ONlY One Church Mt. 16:18-19; Mt. 28:16-20

The Bible 2nd. Pet. 1:16-21 & 3: 14-17

Nature of sin 1 Jn. 1:8-10; 1 Jn.5:16-17; Jn.20:19-23

PURGATORY MAKES POSSIBLE FOR MILLIONS OF SOULS [PERHAPS EVEN BILLIONS?] THAT OTHERWISE ARE NOT PERFECT; BUT ONLY "VERY GOOD.”[YET DIE WITHOUT UNCONFESSED OR UNFORIVEN MORTAL SINS, TO IN TIME, ATTAIN THE BEATIFIC VISION. JOHN 5:16-17

  1. BECAUSE GOD IS PERFECT HE CAN ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN A PERFECT [OR AN AFTER-DEATH PERFECTED] SOUL IN HIS PRESENCE.

Mt…5: 4” YOU, THEREFORE, MUST BE PERFECT, AS YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS PERFECT”

ALL SIN HAS A SECONDARY NATURE, TERMED A “PUBLIC NATURE” A "TEMPORAL PUNISHMENT THAT ALL SIN INCUR,”

BECAUSE ALL SIN HURTS OTHERS BESIDES THE SINNER; GOD ACCEPTS ONLY PERFECT SOULS & INSIST THAT THIS DEBT BE REPAID IN FULL PRIOR TO ENTRY INTO HEAVEN, THIS DEBT EXIST EVEN AFTER THE SIN HAS BEEN SACRA MENTALLY FORGIVEN JOHN 20:19-23

The amount of repayment due to “Temporal Punishment”, which all sin incur as well as our attempts to repay it while still on earth are concealed as Christ alone knows the amount of the debt, and the amount of credit He will accept and apply to this debt by our prayers, charity, and Indulgences. The Church exercising her Authority

Jn 17: 18 & 20:21, Mt 16:18-19 offers us the opportunity to MERIT Indulgences that have the Power to wipe clean part of, or even conditionally all this debt completely until we sin again.

the Bible itself: what it does teach on Purgatory.

Rev. 21: 27 “But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Mt. 5: 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Matt.5: 48 “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

1 Cor. 3: 13-14 “each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it,
because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done if the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, [Purgatory] though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

I suggest that we might think of Purgatory as a Sort of “Soul-Wash” that can perfect Souls who die in God’s Grace, but still have a debt caused by sin’s Temporal Punishment to repay.

Yes, and neither is Christimas, Easter, Rapture(I mean technically it is in the greek translation but…)

Great discussion. And it gives me, and people like me, who have lost a loved one and wonder if they are in Heaven…hope. My son (28) was a wonderful person. Cradle Catholic, baptized but not confirmed. Quit going to church in his teens but probably would of returned later in life as a lot of us do. His health was bad and he prayed to God every night for God to heal him, to help him, as he didn’t want to die. But he never got relief and told me one day he didn’t believe in God anymore, not understanding how God could let someone suffer so (especially small children) and worried about all the really good people who would go to hell just because they had other beliefs and religions that went back generations, some before Christ. He worried a lot about this kind of stuff. And four months later he died.

It’s been nine months now and I still worry constantly about where he is. If I had no hope in purgatory then that would mean he would probably be in hell. But he was a Catholic and always believed in God up until his health got so very bad there towards the end. And I still think he did believe in God but was so upset and angry with Him over stuff he didn’t understand. But I believe God understood his anger and loved him and forgave him anyway. My son was kind of like a child who got mad at his parents and said he hated them but of course they knew better and still loved him anyway. I pray God, in all his wisdom and mercy, understood what was in my son’s heart.

Sorry for posting about this again. My mind constantly torments me about this and I pray for peace of mind that eludes me. Always. I pray to God for a sign to let me know that he is ok and in Heaven.

But, anyway, I believe in purgatory and that souls like my son go there first before Heaven. I’m eternally grateful for that opportunity. I pray for the repose of his soul, as I do for other family members and friends, every night.

‘Easter’ is an English word; the word that the non-English-speaking world uses is ‘Pascha’ – which is a transliteration of the Hebrew word ‘pesach’ (or passover). So yeah… ‘Easter’ – that is, Pascha, is in the Bible.

And, of course, the doctrine of the Rapture isn’t found in the Bible, but the word itself (* rapiemur* – “we will be lifted up”) is a Latin word, found in the Latin Vulgate, not in the Greek New Testament (the Greek word here is ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagēsometha)).

Actually the word “rapture” is GREEK. And “Easter” has come to MEAN the paschal mystery, but originally it actually meant some Egyptian holiday. SO the meaning is in there, but the word is not.

Its a Latin word… do you have a reference for the Greek word you are referring to?

I don’t think you need to worry about your son. I think God shows souls what they need to know at the moment of their death or right after before they have to make their final decision. I would highly recommend the book “Get Us Out of Here” which speaks on the holy souls. Sister Emmanuel also wrote a good book that is similar to this book as it draws from private revelations of Maria Siima as well, “The Amazing Secret of the Souls in Purgatory.”

I think it’s an approved private revelation, but I’ll need to verify. I know we’re not supposed to mention these things unless they are approved.

It is just a personal theory of mine, but I have often speculated that we begin to pay for our sins before we leave earth. This might be to offer us a choice on the way we work off forgiven sin. It seems to me that there is more merit in choosing to do the right thing now.

My cross on earth right now is a very heavy one to carry. I think that once I learn the lessons I am supposed to learn, and as I become a better person and avoid sin, then at some point, Christ along with the Queen of heaven will show mercy and intercede.

It helps to remember that God is with me, and often helps in some fashion when I fall, or will stand aside if I sin badly enough. I try NOT to think of doing good works as way to simply pay off debt. You miss the entire point of the exercise if you do.

I can learn much from others if I see the mistakes and traps they have walked into, and when it happens offer prayer on their behalf. Most importantly, praying for those people I don’t care for, forgiving those who have harmed me, is also very important.

I researched the word rapture. You are correct…I guess its another lie I havent shed from my fundamentalist days. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, you’re right, I believe. We are offered the opportunity for purgation while here on earth and there is merit in it while there is no merit to be gained once we leave this life.

Thank you for your response JamalChristophr. I’m glad you shared the book recommendations and I will definitely get them. I am constantly searching for any and all information about purgatory. Trying to find something to give me peace of mind. I don’t want to live the rest of my life worrying over this. Please pray for me everyone.

I am so sorry for your loss… I will pray for you and your son.
mlz:gopray2:

You are most welcome. I would recommend that you have 3 Masses said for the repose of his soul. The mass is the most powerful means, far as I know, of freeing a soul from Purgatory, and they often asked Maria Simma for that when they came to her, although just one is obviously very powerful. I’m fond of the number three myself and I think some souls did require three.

May Our Lady aid you through her powerful intercession!

Easter comes from Ishtar, the Assyrian/Babylonian fertility goddess or the Teutonic goddess Eastre (spring goddess).

Those two books I mentioned, I believe, draw from private revelations that are not at this time approved by the Church, so actually I should not have mentioned them here. There are however, other good books on purgatory that carry the Church’s Imprimatur. There is always the possibility for error in private revelations that the church has not approved.

According to what I saw at a Woman of Grace webpage, “Get Me Out of Here” has an imprimatur, but I do not see it in the book that I own, so I’m still uncertain about it.

womenofgrace.com/blog/?p=23059

I’m Catholic myself but in NO way believe in Purgatory. Because it doesn’t exist. God is sending out people who he has given visions and dreams to explain to so many Catholics that there is NO purgatory. The Lord will NOT put a “safety-net” for those who “kinda sorta believed” or those who wouldn’t FULLY SURRENDER to Jesus Christ. Purgatory is a belief created by man and is honestly only viewed as a place where “God in his INFINITE mercy burned sinners only for a while”. Because God is just he will not let a sinner go unpunished. “The wages for sin is death” -Jesus Christ. You would honestly only benefit from stlopping your belief in purgatory. Catholics give SO much praise to MARY! She is the mother of GOD but is only to be made in reverence. If you pay more to Mary than Jesus Christ, let the truth come out now. MARY is sad that SOO many Catholics PRAY to her. She would love it if Catholics would destroy all there statues of her and JESUS whom people pray to. When the Lord JESUS CHRIST IS NOT A STATUE, but A LIVING GOD IN YOUR LIFE. Please, my fellow Catholics, Purgatory is a false doctrine made by man, to make GOD sound more loving than ge already INFINITELY is! Please, don’t live your life believing this!

I’ve heard some people say, “less time in purgatory” when someone is suffering something. Usually said in jest like when someone has a sunburn, etc. I do wonder if that would be true though?

My mother was in a care home for about 2 years before she died and she had dementia long before that. The priest told me she would be considered a white martyr for her suffering.

It is quite possible to go straight to Heaven with no time in Purgatory, but we must gracefully accept our trials and sufferings while here on Earth as either the ordaining or permitting will of God. It can be very hard to do, but it’s a grace we can pray for if we choose. That is one important key, but I think there are like three things that are important. Still early, though for me, I need some caffeine. :slight_smile:

=marymmma;12457361]Great discussion. And it gives me, and people like me, who have lost a loved one and wonder if they are in Heaven…hope. My son (28) was a wonderful person. Cradle Catholic, baptized but not confirmed. Quit going to church in his teens but probably would of returned later in life as a lot of us do. His health was bad and he prayed to God every night for God to heal him, to help him, as he didn’t want to die. But he never got relief and told me one day he didn’t believe in God anymore, not understanding how God could let someone suffer so (especially small children) and worried about all the really good people who would go to hell just because they had other beliefs and religions that went back generations, some before Christ. He worried a lot about this kind of stuff. And four months later he died.

It’s been nine months now and I still worry constantly about where he is. If I had no hope in purgatory then that would mean he would probably be in hell. But he was a Catholic and always believed in God up until his health got so very bad there towards the end. And I still think he did believe in God but was so upset and angry with Him over stuff he didn’t understand. But I believe God understood his anger and loved him and forgave him anyway. My son was kind of like a child who got mad at his parents and said he hated them but of course they knew better and still loved him anyway. I pray God, in all his wisdom and mercy, understood what was in my son’s heart.

Sorry for posting about this again. My mind constantly torments me about this and I pray for peace of mind that eludes me. Always. I pray to God for a sign to let me know that he is ok and in Heaven.

But, anyway, I believe in purgatory and that souls like my son go there first before Heaven. I’m eternally grateful for that opportunity. I pray for the repose of his soul, as I do for other family members and friends, every night.

My DEAR friend in Christ,

I am truly sorry for your loss.

We can’t know with certitude where our loved ones have gone. BUT God is a JUST and Faith Judge who grants Mercy and understanding in ways and to degrees that we can’t comprehend. Isiah 55:6-10

The Church teaches that we ought not despair if a loved one commits suicide; because we cannot know the state of their “freewill.” Were they fully aware of what they were about to do, or were they influenced by other factors?

Perhaps that same principle might apply to your sons situation?

Suffering exist for one of two reasons: Both Glorify God.

All suffering is either caused by God or more often just PERMITTED by God

1.If we ACCEPT the suffering and offer it up God is Glorified and that person is sanctified. {Given extra grace}

  1. If one is suffering and does not accept it; God is still Glorified for having given that person an opportunity for additional grace. Which does not mean that person is damned;
    only that they passed up an opportunity to merit additional grace.

TRUST in God;s Mercy, knowing that He can’t {impossible} make unjust Judgment.

PRAY much!
God Bless you,
Patrick

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