Purgatory and Ghost


#1

A priest here in Iraq say the existence of Purgatory can be proven by the existence of ghosts. He made a long explanation which is very convincing. This priest has a doctorate in chemistry, and theology…

He said that the when we pray for the souls for them, these ghost will disappear.


#2

Well, Padre Pio saw the ghost of that one patient in the old hospital (or was it a mental ward), who said God had allowed him to visit Padre Pio to petition for his prayers so that he could be released from purgatory.

And there are other saints who were visited by souls seeking petitions to release them from purgatory.

That is not to say that all ghosts are in purgatory, though. Some ghosts wander about lost, it would seem, while the ones who visited the saints were ‘granted permission’ to make their appearances. It is my understanding some ghosts are conjured by the satanic.

Overall, it would seem that the existence of purgatory could be proven by the ghosts who visited the saints, but then that probably wouldn’t carry much weight with those who don’t believe in the communion of saints and apparitions. :blush:


#3

I can see individual souls being allowed by God to petition for our prayers. What I can’t see are ghosts spending years in particlular houses or places scaring people by making noises, moaning, etc. This seams theologically problematic to me and bordering on superstition.

God Bless,
Michael


#4

I believe MOST “ghosts” are demons.


#5

If it could be proved, that would disprove it. This sort of rationalism that tries to prove everything is to faith what DDT is to a garden - it tries to do it good, but only ruins it in the process.

Faith does not depend on human wisdom - to make it do so, is to empty the Cross of all its saving power. Faith is not founded on human cleverness, but on God’s revelation. Reason is tolerable in its place - but as a foundation for Christian belief, nothing more worthless could be imagined. Reason is like a hired assassin - it can prove anything, from God’s goodness to His badness, from the need of faith to its needlessness. ##


#6

I believe they are demons and those departed souls because the priest uncle died and came to visit his old house months after his death. His wife saw looking at furnitures and stuff.

The demons would be those shadowy looking spirits I have seen in some Ghost hunter reality show…


#7

Scriptures say to “test the spirits.” I have had my share of personal encounters with “Ghosts.” The majority of them had my hair standing on end and a strong feeling of oppression or fear attached to them. Others were causing problems of a destructive nature. I have no reason to believe these were departed souls who Love God. If they were their presence would not have such results. God is not the author of fear and confusion! I don’t believe those who are going to hell are allowed to roam the earth.

On the other hand I did once see a woman (about an hour after she died) as she was leaving this earth, I believe she came to wish me goodbye. It was SO the opposite of the other encounters. I clearly knew it was her, she was wearing all white and there was an extreme feeling of peace about the area.

I wasn’t the only one who saw her (or even those others), so it was not a hallucination.


#8

I believe there are Ghosts, one can read Thousands and Thousands of Ghost stories on the web, they can’t all be fake stories. I think some can be demons but not all.


#9

I know the church does not use the term “ghost”, but “spirit”. The Vatican archives does have a section related to the appearances of souls from Purgatory to various saints through the centuries. The church has always cautioned of such apperances since the devil can attempted to decive us on earth.


#10

rrbond you have a distinctive point there.

et el

I too have a huge problem with ghosts, I believe they are demons and nothing else. There is no useful purpose to them, and the experience is fuzzy unrecordable, in the dark associated with superstious things like 3 am, cemetaries, etc. And the subject of numerous sightings and quite a number of hoaxes.

But as said by Syele occasionaly it is a pleasant experience, dare I say a blessing?

If I understand what rrbond is saying then the experiences of Spirits is of a smaller number and documented by officials?

So a real opposite which would confirm what rrbond said regarding the devil deceiving us. Especially given satans love of imitating things of Heaven.

And what Grottle said about reason, that is very well put.

I would like to add (if thats ok) my theory that even if there was a “proof” a “thing” that proved God existed. He would hide it from us, as that would stiffle free will and faith too.

I think if we wanted to know about these ghosts, Id like to know the difference between them and these Spirits. My guess is Spirits are associated or helped or even represented by Angels.

Whereas ghosts are associated, helped or represented by demons.

Just a feeling I have about it.


#11

They would also disappear if they were demons. I never heard of a demon that would stick around if you prayed for them.


#12

I like the topic of Purgatory… It’s a great one… I’ve posted this before, but for your benifit, I’ll post it again…

Purgatory…

Simplified but accurate understanding.

For starters… First and Foremost… Purgatory is NOT a place. It is akin to saying someone is in Labor. The person giving birth isn’t in the location called labor, they are in the process called labor

Do you believe that when you sin or have some stain of sin, and then you come to Christ, that you are
Covered in Christ?
Clothed in a white Rob?
Cleansed by his Blood?

After coming to Christ, you sin again, and ask for forgiveness are you not then
Covered in Christ?
Clothed in a white Rob?
Cleansed by his Blood?

Can anything with Sin enter heaven? nope
ok then…
If you die with some stain of sin (as almost all of us will) but you also die in his Grace, will he turn you away? Absolutely not. he will
Cover us with Christ
Clothe us in a white robe
Cleanse us with his blood

And that in a nut shell is purgatory

Purgatory is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT a place… It is a process, like labor.

It is a word used to describe the LAST time we will ever need to be cleansed. It is a result of his Grace and Forgiveness, not in spite of it.

How long does it last? Don’t know… may take years, may be instant. however, it is a mute point

Is it Painful? Maybe not in the way we feel pain now, maybe it will… Again… mute point…

the word Purgatory, Like the word Trinity isn’t found in the bible. But like the word trinity, it is deeply rooted in the bible.

Purgatory is simply the biblical concept of our sins being forgiven and being removed from us one last time.

This IS what purgatory is. Those that want to say purgatory isn’t in the bible have NO idea what purgatory is.

In Christ


#13

I cannot buy into the fact that souls suffering in the fires of Purgatory to pay of their debt to the last penny could also be casually strolling around, everything in me says no way.

Occasionally these souls would be seen by great saints suffering in fire and pleading for prayers but they were still confined to Purgatory. Roaming spirits on the other hand attached to locations/people are demonic, lets just call a spade a spade.

Unclean spirits are sometimes known as “familiar” spirits and attach themselves to certain places, people, objects and so on, why this is I’m not sure. Malachi Martins book “Hostage To The Devil” gets into some of the actions of these spirits. I would not recommend reading the book without fasting, confession and making sure you are spiritually strong, it’s a graphic and filthy portrayel of exorcism and how demons work and operate in this world and in those who succumb to them, but eye opening as well.


#14

I believe the “ghosts” that are attached to places (like haunted houses) are definitely demons rather than departed people… People mess with the occult and invite them in to the place an then even if the person leaves there is still no opposition to there presence there, so why leave?


#15

Something similar happened in my family–my brothers and I all saw my grandfather after he died. What’s wild is that we didn’t talk about the experience for years; it had to have been at least 10 years before I found out they saw him too. So, yes, I do believe in ghosts. Many of them are probably evil spirits designed to lead us away from God, but why can’t some of the benign ghosts be people in Purgatory?


#16

you made me think if people are in purgatory then they are there, not here. Those visits that are positive could be under angelic influence. And they are not ghosts as we understand the word.

But things happen oddly when death happens, I think the 2 worlds blur at that moment. I wonder if the positive experiences occur shorthly after or before death. And the awful are not associated at all.

Also when my mom was dying in the hospital, I went to the chapel to pray with my son. While my hubby and brothers went with dad. My one brother came to get me just after they announced we should come back. I heard him and we left the chapel.

What he didnt tell me until several days later was when he came for me, he could hardly walk in the chapel, there was such a presense of peace there he could almost see it. I was thinking comforting angels. He said he stood there for a while, and if he let go he would have “gotten religion” on the spot.

I was amazed, but thinking back my ADHD son was quietly looking at the stained glass after he finished praying with me. And I had come away with several verses. I was not visited by mom just comforted.


#17

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