Purgatory


#1

I realize that Purgtaory is a state of purification after one dies and that all souls who go to Purgatory are saved.

However, does a person have an opportunity to purify one’s self before death? Can we, in a sense, experience Purgatory on earth, or is it reserved only for people who have died?


#2

[quote=TPJCatholic]I realize that Purgtaory is a state of purification after one dies and that all souls who go to Purgatory are saved.

However, does a person have an opportunity to purify one’s self before death? Can we, in a sense, experience Purgatory on earth, or is it reserved only for people who have died?
[/quote]

Since not all go thru purgatory, for example BVM, I would think it possible to “go direct”


#3

Purgatory is for those who die in a state of grace,but still have venial sins, or unloving-ness left over, purgatory will strip them of alll of those left over ‘not good stuffs’ and perfect them to go to heaven. through confession, prayer, attending mass, charitable works, repentance, fasting, etc, we can do basically the same thing purgatory does, but before we die… and the better off you are before you die, the happier God is with you, making it a whole lot easier to go… hope that helps


#4

I think Purgatory on earth might be a good argument to why Euthanasia is so worng under any circumstance even if the person is in a coma with no hope of waking or functioning again… In those cases, the person probabyl is siffering a lot in whatever state they are in so that may be part of theri purificaton in their last moments on earth.


#5

[quote=TPJCatholic]I realize that Purgtaory is a state of purification after one dies and that all souls who go to Purgatory are saved.

However, does a person have an opportunity to purify one’s self before death? Can we, in a sense, experience Purgatory on earth, or is it reserved only for people who have died?
[/quote]

Yes, part of salvation is purification. Purgatory is only the purification that did not occur on earth. If you die completely pure you will go straight to heaven.


#6

I have thought abnout this too. We do know that Mary went straight to heaven, and the good thief on the cross did as well.
Moses and Elijah did. There are many Saints we can assume did.
Most of the above mentioned were perfect by the time of death. By perfect I mean though they retained their free will, and personalities, pretty much everything they did was pleasing to God.
If Purgatory makes us perfect the question is, can we become perfect before we die and avoid Purgatory (which is nearly as bad as hell according to mystical visions over the last 2000 years).
The people I mentioned were imperfect if you think like boring humans that an equalateral triangle is perfect or a circle is perfect. I think God seeks a different kind of perfect in his creation. Sure, symetry and balance are virtues, but what about all those quirky Saints with imperfections and personalities? What about Moses who sinned in his lifetime, or Elijah? they were passionate people.
So when people say we can’t be perfect in this life, I think they have a boring vision of perfect. If you change your vision of perfect to one more worthy of God’s creativity then our hopes become what he truly hopes from us. Can perfect be a triathelete with 20-20 vision who has an IQ off the charts and can quote scripture at will? It depends. can perfect be a girl with downs syndrome who loves everyone she’s ever met with such perfect love and who’s very nature changes peoples moods for the better and helps others love more perfect? Yea, I think she very well could be. My cousin is that girl and I have seen how she can be a perfect fit in all our lives. Saint Francis, and Padre Pio might be locked up in insane asylums in some cultures, but to God they were perfect versions of themselves.
Thats the key.
I don’t think perfect is a diamond. I think perfect is an old oak tree that grows wild in all directions. There are weeds around it, and maybe even some termites in the wood, but it is perfect in a creative sort of way. God is the most creative of all, so his vision of perfect won’t fit ours, but we can guess based on who we feel He wants us to be.
The good thief was perfect, becasue that day he went to heaven as Jesus said he would. But lets not rejoice at an example of a sinner going straight to heaven without repaying all his sins in Purgatory. He DID repay all his sins on the cross. Imagine how painful that experience was. If thats what it took for him to be made perfect and go straight ot heaven what will it take us if we wait till we die to “repay every last farthing”? God offers us ways every day in little sufferings to do penance. If we complain to ourselves and others about suffering then it is just suffering. If we offer it up to God it becomes penance. That is what the Good Thief did when he admited he was being justly punished. His salvation came when he recognized Jesus as his saviour and asked Him to remember him in heaven. His penance was admitting he deserved what was happening to him.
We can do the same thing. There are also indulgences and other ways of knocking off Purgatory time through good works. We can also help others get through Purgatory through our prayers. Teach others of Purgatory beause ignorance of it, like Hell, will not make it go away for anyone!
Patrick


#7

sure, it is possible to unite earthly sufferings with those of Christ to the extent that they purify the soul, in fact all suffering can benefit the soul if one cooperates with God’s immense graces during such times. We have many examples among the saints. Indulgences can remit some of the temporal punishment due to sin, and are a way of formally asking God for these graces and for this purification.


#8

G’day Purgatory is indeed an interesting topic and I am still trying to understand it myself.

Firstly what biblical proof is there of Purgatory?
Secondly non-catholics would argue that Jesus paid for all our sins on the cross.

[/font]http://www.religioustolerance.org/purgatory1.htm

Jesus Christ cleanses us from every sin. THe problem is that it is near impossible to live in a state of cleaness - the thing about purgatory is that you stay there depending on the sins that you have committed, but the problem is, i would argue that humans, Christians included, are so sinful that the only way they could repay their sins is to go to hell. ~quote from friend.~

Evanescence


#9

[quote=TheRaiders]I have thought abnout this too. We do know that Mary went straight to heaven, and the good **thief on the cross ** did as well.
Patrick
[/quote]

That’s what I used to think but in other threads about this posters pointed out two different scenarios:

  1. “Paradise” as mentioned by Jesus to the thief on the cross did not mean Heaven but the place that Jesus would first go to after he died when he descended to the place of the dead.

  2. Because there is no punctuation in the original language the verse in Luke has been punctuated incorrectly in English and instead of Luke 23:43 saying “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” it should more correctly say “Amen I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise”. In other words Jesus is telling him today that he will be with him but later so the thief would be in Purgatory first.

Whichever is correct the main point is that the thief was saved. It is just a question of whether he went straight to Heaven or Purgatory first.


#10

We are being sanctified daily in our walk with Christ. Purgatory mearly completes the sanctification process. If you go to heaven straight after death then you had reach a point where it would be classified as holiness. That’s a good thing.
Even in this state I believe that there is a removal of some sort of selfishness left. Maybe it’s my crass notion of the sinfulnness of humans. I don’t know. After our baptism we still have a damaged nature due to Original sin. We still suffer the effects of it, both physically and spiritually. If we are free from mortal sin at the time of our death, I believe that makes the transition to Heaven much easier if not faster (depending on what you would consider “fast” to be outside of time), but regardless. Purgatory is the beginning of Heaven. Some shoes will be cleaner than others at the welcome mat. That’s all.
:smiley:


closed #11

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