Purgatory


#1

I don’t believe in Purgatory. Talk to me.

God’s Peace~ Lisa


#2

Well it sounds like you have a lot of questions about Catholicism. This is good because it means the Holy Spirit is trying to show you something. Purgatory is very Biblical and many famous non-Catholic theologians believed in it also such as C.S. Lewis. If you want an in-depth explanation there are a few wonderful ones on the normal catholic answers page.


#3

Purgatory is the transition into glory: “the final rush of sanctification”.

It explains the reason why we won’t sin in Heaven, even though on earth, we often sin until death, even after being saved.


#4

When we die we do not die pure, and without an attachment to sin. In order to enter Heaven we must be pure. Revelations says that nothing unpure will enter Heaven.

There are two dogmas about Purgatory. The first is that it exists and the second is that prayers are helpful to those people in Purgatory.
You do not have to believe anything else.

Purgatory is actually an act of mercy on Gods part because if there were no Purgatory everyone who was not perfect and pure would be damned to Hell.


#5

CCC

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611

scborromeo.org/index2.htm
(See Catechism link on left)


#6

If you’re looking for an answer that includes really a whole look at purgatory, I’d suggest this link:

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp


#7

well, to answer that quiestion, I have to ask you: do you believe that nothing – but *nothing * – impure can enter Heaven (an eternal Beaitific Vision of God as He sees Himself). None. not a single venial sin (will explain if you don’t know what that means). not a single imperfection.

If you do… then purgatory is only a logical consequent conclusion. :thumbsup:


#8

[quote=jimmy] The first is that it exists and the second is that prayers are helpful to those people in Purgatory.
You do not have to believe anything else.

[/quote]

It is disturbing to me that you believe in praying for the dead. They are dead, and their fate was already determined by God. How do you think praying for them will help them, when God is all-knowing and has already judged them?

God’s Peace~ Lisa


#9

JesusFreak16, purgatory is an imaginary place created by Catholic tradition a long time ago to take advantage of indulgences. Famous true story, no need to repeat it.

The most important thing is to always remember that the blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ will clean you from every single sin.

Think about the thief on the cross. Jesus told him that he will be in heaven. Think about the example of Lazarus and the rich man, where did the rich man directly go and could the prayers of people on earth save him !?

Jesus said: IT IS FINISHED!

The Word of God tells us that God will no longer remember our sins when we admit that we sinned and ask forgiveness from our Lord.


#10

Hi Lisa,
Partly because our Bible contains Maccabees which is one of the books that was removed from the Protestant Bible.

2 Macc 12:44-45 For if he were not expecting that those who had falllen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 43 But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, so that they might be delivered from their sin.

You may have the mistaken idea that we believe we can change God’s mind on sending someone to heaven or hell. This is not true. Purgatory is only for those who are destined for heaven. Whether or not it is an instaneous cleansing or something that may take time is not contained in the official teaching of the Catholic Church. Popular belief is that it takes time. Some Scholars think it may be instantaneous.

But either way, Scripture tells us it is a “holy and pious thought” to pray for the dead.

God Bless,
Maria


#11

[quote=JesusFreak16]It is disturbing to me that you believe in praying for the dead. They are dead, and their fate was already determined by God. How do you think praying for them will help them, when God is all-knowing and has already judged them?

God’s Peace~ Lisa
[/quote]

They aren’t dead they are just as alive as you or me. You must be perfect in order to enter Heaven. Praying will help them to become perfect so they can enter Heaven. You could ask Paul why he prayed for Onesiphorus or you could as the early church fathers why they prayed for the dead. Here are spme quotes from the early church.

Nothing unreasonable, nothing useless has been handed down from Christ’s preachers and disciples and accepted successively by God’s Church; to perform the commemoration of those fallen asleep in the right faith at the divine and most glorious Mystery is a deed very pleasing to God and beneficial. Saint Gregory of Nyssa.

The priest humbly entreats God’s goodness, that He remit the transgressions of the dead man which have happened through human weakness, that He accept him into the bosom of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, “from whence pain, sorrow and sighing have fled,” disregarding, in His love for man, every sin committed by him who has departed from life. For no one is pure of sin, as say the prophets. Hieromartyr Dionysius the Areopagite.

When the names of those who have fallen asleep are remembered in prayers, what can be more beneficial for them this? The lving believe that the dead also are not deprived of existence, but live with God. Just as the Holy church teaches us to pray for brethren who with afaith and hope are traveling, that the prayers performed for them are beneficial, in such a way ought one to understand also the prayers performed for those who have departed from this world. Hierarch Epiphanius of Cyprus

Here are some links to bible verses that support purgatory and church fathers.

cin.org/users/jgallegos/purg.htm
scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html


#12

[quote=JesusFreak16]It is disturbing to me that you believe in praying for the dead. They are dead, and their fate was already determined by God. How do you think praying for them will help them, when God is all-knowing and has already judged them?
[/quote]

Catholics believe that there’s a transition between death and glory. In this state, God gives a person “the final rush of sanctification”. Since we know that sanctification on earth hurts, why wouldn’t it hurt between death and glory? For that reason, it’s entirely charitable to pray for our loved ones when they die.

If we know for sure that a person is in Heaven, then praying for him makes no sense. Likewise, if we know for sure that a person is in Hell, praying for him makes no sense. However, if we don’t know for sure what a person’s “fate” is, then it’s not irrational to pray for him. Rather, it’s flows from Christ’s command to love one another as He has loved us.

Here’s what one of the most famous Protestants in the 20th century wrote about that:“Of course I pray for the dead. The action is so spontaneous, so all but inevitable, that only the most compulsive theological case against it would deter me. And I hardly know how the rest of my prayers would survive if those for the dead were forbidden. At our age, the majority of those we love best are dead. What sort of intercourse with God could I have if what I love best were unmentionable to him?”


#13

We must be perfected in love to get to heaven. Until we are perfected in love, we cannot be in God’s presence (Mt 5:48; Heb 12:14;Rev. 21:27).

C.A. apologist answers with some resources.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=16136&highlight=purgatory

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=7479&highlight=purgatory

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=4306&highlight=purgatory

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=3099&highlight=purgatory

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1484&highlight=purgatory


#14

[quote=homer]JesusFreak16, purgatory is an imaginary place created by Catholic tradition a long time ago to take advantage of indulgences. Famous true story, no need to repeat it.

The most important thing is to always remember that the blood of our Saviour Jesus Christ will clean you from every single sin.

Think about the thief on the cross. Jesus told him that he will be in heaven. Think about the example of Lazarus and the rich man, where did the rich man directly go and could the prayers of people on earth save him !?

Jesus said: IT IS FINISHED!

The Word of God tells us that God will no longer remember our sins when we admit that we sinned and ask forgiveness from our Lord.
[/quote]

Your examples are irrelevant. The rich man went to Hell so he did not go to Purgatory and prayers would not help him.
How do you know the man on the cross bes ide Jesus did not go to Purgatory, it certainly does not say that in the bible.

I could quote Clement of Alexandria or any other church father to backup the teaching of Purgatory. We did not make it up, you just decided not to believe it.

Yes, Jesus said it was finished but that does not mean that we do not have to be perfect in order to enter Heaven.


#15

[quote=jimmy] church fathers why they prayed for the dead. Here are spme quotes from the early church.

Here are some links to bible verses that support purgatory and church fathers.

[/quote]

Jimmy,
Quoting the saints doesn’t do me any good, as they were human and imperfect as you and I are. I don’t agree with the Catholic things about naming people saints. What else?

God’s Peace~
Lisa


#16

[quote=jimmy]How do you know the man on the cross bes ide Jesus did not go to Purgatory, it certainly does not say that in the bible.
[/quote]

Because Jesus told him: Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. !!!


#17

[quote=homer]Because Jesus told him: Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. !!!
[/quote]

:amen:

God’s Peace~
Lisa


#18

[quote=homer]Because Jesus told him: Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. !!!
[/quote]

Jesus didn’t ascend into Heaven on the day of his death.


#19

[quote=JesusFreak16]Jimmy,
Quoting the saints doesn’t do me any good, as they were human and imperfect as you and I are. I don’t agree with the Catholic things about naming people saints. What else?

God’s Peace~
Lisa
[/quote]

The reformers were as ‘human and imperfect as you and I are’.

Why do you follow them?


#20

[quote=homer]Because Jesus told him: Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. !!!
[/quote]

So, that doesn’t mean anything. God is not controled by time and he could go to Purgatory and still go to Heaven on the same day. God is outside of time, so it does not affect him.

If you go to Purgatory you will end up in Heaven.


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