Putin 'urges talks on statehood for east Ukraine'


#1

We all knew this was coming…here’s ‘Crimea no.2’…

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29003116

**BBC - Putin ‘urges talks on statehood for east Ukraine’

President Putin has called for talks to discuss “statehood” for eastern Ukraine, Russian media report.**
He said the issue needed to be discussed to ensure the interests of local people “are definitely upheld”.

His comments came after the EU gave Russia a one-week ultimatum to reverse course in Ukraine or face sanctions.

Russia denies Western accusations that its forces illegally crossed into eastern Ukraine to support separatists there.

“Russia cannot stand aside when people are being shot at almost at point blank,” he added, describing the rebels’ actions as “the natural reaction of people who are defending their rights”.

He dismissed the EU’s threat of further sanctions, accusing the EU of “backing a coup d’etat” in Ukraine.

The West, Mr Putin said, should have foreseen Russia’s reaction to the situation, adding it was impossible to predict how the crisis would end.

Pro-Russian rebels have made gains against Ukrainian troops in recent days in the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

Also on Sunday, Russian media reported that 10 Russian paratroopers returned home in exchange for 63 captured Ukrainian soldiers held by Russia.

Some 2,600 people have died in fighting since April.


#2

adding it was impossible to predict how the crisis would end.

Hmmm, not for calculating individuals like Putin.


#3

The real tragedy is that all of this might well have been prevented, and President Yanukhovych might even have been peacefully pressured into resigning. Instead, a large number of people decided to back a blatantly obvious violent Western orchestrated coup in Kiev. And had Vladimir Putin ignored it all, you can bet the travelling Euromaidan show’s next stop would have been Kazakhstan or Belarus or Armenia.


#4

This article is quite illuminating:

vox.com/2014/8/30/6087003/putin-today-the-russian-and-ukrainian-peoples-are-practically-one

Russian President Vladimir Putin, in expansive comments to a Russian youth forum on Friday just publicized on Saturday, argued that “the Russian and Ukrainian peoples are practically one single people,” which is being taken as a major rhetorical step toward occupying or annexing more of Ukraine as Russian territory.

The comments came just a day after Putin referred to the Russia-backed separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine as “the militia of Novorossiya,” which means New Russia. Novorossiya is a politically charged, imperial-era term used when southern Ukraine was a part of the Russian Empire, and used by Russian far-right nationalists today to assert Russian ownership over the region…

Here is the relevant section of Putin’s comments, with the especially alarming quotes in bold. Note Putin’s heavy reference to ancient, pan-Slavic history and his recollections of glorious past when present-day Russia and Ukraine were part of the same political unit. He also compares Kiev, the Ukrainian capital, to Crimea as a “holy place,” which may sound quite scary if you are a Ukrainian worries about which part of your country Putin will annex next. He speaks of Orthodox Christianity as the true religion of Ukraine and of Catholicism as an alien force.

Here are Putin’s words themselves:

There are historians here, and people with their own views on our country’s history might argue with me, but I think that the Russian and Ukrainian peoples are practically one single people, no matter what others might say.

Correct me of course if you want, but just listen first. There was no Russian people as such back then. There were Slavic tribes. Some say there were 16, others 32, people have different figures for these tribes, Slavs, Drevlians and so on. And with the baptism of Rus, Vladimir was himself first baptised in Chersonesus, and this makes Crimea a holy place for us too, and he then came to Kiev and had the whole of Rus baptised.

It was after this that the Russian nation began to take shape, but it was multi-ethnic right from the start. People living in what is Ukraine today all called themselves ‘Russian’. Yes, there was Galicia, the territories in the west, close to Western Europe, and it was natural that they developed particular relations with the Catholic world and their neighbours through the intermingling of languages and cultures. But they should not impose their views on their entire Ukrainian people

.

These are the words of a very dangerous man with an ethno-nationalist worldview that does not recognize the sanctity of universally protected borders defined under international law, if they happen to conflict with his conception of who and what constitutes ‘Russia’.

The undertones of anti-Catholicism and the subtle characterisation of Catholics as ‘other,’ as representative of the alien civilization of the West is particularly troubling to me and forebodes something very ill indeed for the long suffering Catholics of Ukraine, who suffered under the Tsar, under the Soviets and now under Putin.


#5

I’m having a hard time seeing anything incorrect in what Pres. Putin is saying. All of ancient Rus was converted to Orthodoxy. It was only after the Tatar invasion when western Rus lands were occupied by Poland-Lithuania that those areas became Catholic.


#6

Are you asserting there was no Poland or Lithuania before 1240?

Poland has existed since at least 966 AD.


#7

Since the Russians can easily become a minority in their own country in the next several decades, I still think this is part of the plan to seize other territories.


#8

Precisely and over 2000 people, including civilians, killed because of it. Putin has been saying since February that this is an internal issue for Ukraine to sort out, by talks and not bloodshed.

washingtonpost.com/world/european-leaders-step-up-rhetoric-against-russia-as-ukraine-urges-tougher-sanctions/2014/08/31/8e0d6ba8-30fd-11e4-a723-fa3895a25d02_story.html

*But Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Putin was only calling for dialogue, not giving an opinion as to ultimate status of the region, when he urged “substantive, meaningful negotiations” on the “political organization of society and statehood” in southeast Ukraine.

“These are the inclusive talks that should determine the relationship with the eastern regions, that is, negotiations inside Ukraine on the internal Ukrainian order with respect for the interests of the country’s eastern regions, the interests of Novorossiya,” Peskov told reporters, according to Russian state-owned news agency Itar-Tass.*


#9

How would this type of philosophy carry out elsewhere? What if England insisted Ireland was a formerly occupied land?


#10

I’m not asserting that. I’m saying that they took advantage of Rus’ weakened condition after the Tatar invasion to take over western Rus lands. It was then that many of the Orthodox people living there eventually converted to Catholicism.


#11

CONSTITUTION OF UKRAINE (since 1996)
Article 1
Ukraine is a sovereign and independent, democratic, social, law-based state.
Article 2
The sovereignty of Ukraine extends throughout its entire territory.
Ukraine is a unitary state.
The territory of Ukraine within its present border is indivisible and inviolable.


#12

Constitution of the Republic of Serbia
Article 8. The territory of the Republic of Serbia is inseparable and indivisible.


#13

The Maidan tossed out that first article when they chose to seize power through a coup. The second article is a tautology and a description of the national structure of Ukraine.

Just because the people who enacted a successful coup against the elected government of Ukraine would rather trade with Europe and the US than Russia, that doesn’t make them the good guys.


#14

Law based? democratic? So that precludes violent, foreign backed coups overthrowing of a legally and lawfully democratically elected president then?


#15

You mean the constitution of 2006: first constitution of the independent Republic of Serbia (which includes the area of Kosovo)?


#16

It shows that they are declared independent of the Russian Federation, not that they are invulnerable. As has happened for so long, the wars continue to redefine borders.


#17

There is no reason to believe Russian propaganda, are we forgetting a plane full of innocent passengers was shot down a short time ago?? Is this who we believe?


#18

And you think if Russia had brought down the plane that it would not have been on the MSM, 24/7. They obviously didn’t - otherwise it would give Ukraine and the West all the fuel they need.

macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25981/53/

*A letter sent by a prominent Dutch Professor to Russian president Vladimir Putin has attracted much media attention in Europe. The letter was written by Professor Cees Hamelink and signed by dozens of Dutch intellectuals and professors. Below is the letter in its entirety.

Dear Mr. President Putin,

Please accept our apologies on behalf of a great many people here in the Netherlands for our Government and our Media. The facts concerning MH17 are twisted to defame you and your country.

We are powerless onlookers, as we witness how the Western Nations, led by the United States, accuse Russia of crimes they commit themselves more than anybody else. We reject the double standards that are used for Russia and the West. In our societies, sufficient evidence is required for a conviction. The way you and your Nation are convicted for ‘crimes’ without evidence, is ruthless and despicable.

You have saved us from a conflict in Syria that could have escalated into a World War. The mass killing of innocent Syrian civilians through gassing by ‘Al-*‐Qaeda’ terrorists, trained and armed by the US and paid for by Saudi Arabia, was blamed on Assad. In doing so, the West hoped public opinion would turn against Assad, paving the way for an attack on Syria.
*

nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cees_Hamelink


#19

You have a Dutch college professor apologizing and that’s proof?? That settles it.

Why were rebels firing at investigators trying to reach the plane crash? Oh I’m sure we will always have handy-dandy excuses that it was because it was a war zone.

edition.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-plane-questions/index.html

theepochtimes.com/n3/805200-igor-girkin-commander-of-donetsk-peoples-army-igor-strelkov-says-they-shot-down-malaysia-airlines-mh17-photos/

Igor Girkin / Igor Strelkov: Commander of Donetsk People’s Army Says Group Shot Down Malaysia Airlines MH17? (+Photos)

Russian-backed separatist leader Igor Girkin (who also goes by the name of Strelkov) has claimed credit for shooting down Malaysia Airlines MH17.

The plane went down over eastern Ukraine near the border of Russia. It took off from Amsterdam and was headed to Kuala Lumpur.

“The plane has just been taken down somewhere around Torez (Donetsk Oblast). It lays there behind the Progress mine. We did warn you – do not fly in ‘our sky,’” he said through his account on VK, the Russian version of Facebook, reported the Kyiv Post.


#20

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