Qabala

I personaly dont like or practice Qabala but i would like to know more about it. That way i can respond to answer like this:
“Moses himself was, according to the original Talmud, taught in the desert a system of holy magic by an angel. Furthermore, the first born son of every family was instructed in an oral system of magic during those times(that system being Qabala). The chances of Moses, and even Jesus, not knowing this system are few to none.”

Is this true?

Hi Finex!

I’m an orthodox Jew. I know very little about Kabbalah & as committed as I am to orthodox Judaism, I feel no need whatsoever to delve into Kabbalah. In terms of my faith, I am an unlettered bumpkin & have nowhere near the requisite levels of learning & holiness to delve into Kabbalah.

Kabbalah (i.e. esoteric Jewish mysticism) is, quite properly, the province of very few Jews (only). Only the most pious, learned & saintly need delve into kabbalah in any depth. (That chain of so-called “Kabbalah Centers” has as much to do with real kabbalah as a Twinkie has to do with real pastry. See tinyurl.com/2smgx, tinyurl.com/65mn8, and tinyurl.com/5s6m3.)

jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm is a very good intoductory read on this subject. I’ll cite one sentence:

Today, many well-known celebrities have popularized a new age pop-psychology distortion of kabbalah (I have heard it derisively referred to as “c/rap-balah”) that has more in common with the writings of Deepak Chopra than with any authentic Jewish source.

Kabbalah is a very holy & precious concept to we Jews; we treasure it and we guard it very closely. I once went to lecture here in Jerusalem by a noted Hasidic rabbi who said that he always found it amusing that Jews and non-Jews who had no knowledge whatsoever of the most basic Jewish concepts, want to study Kabbalah. He said that it’s like someone who hasn’t even studied basic anatomy immediately delving into advanced neurosurgery.

This tinyurl.com/58xo7 was in a recent edition of the Toronto Star. It’s a very good (I think) critique of Madonna’s recent visit to Jerusalem; I think that its point is something else that we orthodox Jews & you Roman Catholics can agree on.

Finex, I am utterly unaware of the reference you mentioned. I have no idea whether it’s true or not (although I kinda doubt it).

Be well!

ssv :wave:

Stillsmallvoice, thanks for the article. It’s high time that the media call Madonna on her repulsive behavior, especially after spending so many years fawning over every move she made. It’s a huge shame that this woman built the early part of her career insulting our church and has just shifted over to insulting Judaism - in fact, it’s even worse because at least when she was engaging in her anti-Catholic antics, she didn’t make a pretense of being a loyal follower of our religion. Now she seems to think that all she has to do is call herself Esther & read through the Qabala a few times to be superior to sincere practicing Jews who have spent a lifetime studying their faith. Since she has no respect for religion in general, she should just leave it alone!

[quote=stillsmallvoice]Hi Finex!

Kabbalah is a very holy & precious concept to we Jews; we treasure it and we guard it very closely. I once went to lecture here in Jerusalem by a noted Hasidic rabbi who said that he always found it amusing that Jews and non-Jews who had no knowledge whatsoever of the most basic Jewish concepts, want to study Kabbalah. He said that it’s like someone who hasn’t even studied basic anatomy immediately delving into advanced neurosurgery.

Be well!

ssv :wave:
[/quote]


Vladimir Soloviev would agree with you wholeheartedly. When I have more time I shall quote from him…

Blessings,
Shoshana

Soloviev did research Kabbala rather extensively, and he learned Hebrew to read Scripture in the original and to study Talmud with his tutor and friend Faivel’ Gets. Observed in the British Museum poring over illustrations in a text on Kabbala, Soloviev was heard to say: 'In every line of this book there is more life than in all of European acholarship.

For Soloviev, who here follows Orthodox (Russian) doctrine, to be born in the image and likeness of God is to retain Godlike unity. The Orthodox Church might distinguish between the divine and the human realms, but not between spirit and flesh, as Western theology does, following Augustine. Physical matter is not inherently sinful for Soloviev and Kabbala’s virtual deification of the flesh (within the bounds of Torah law) must have been particularly appealing to him. Traditional Judaism stresses the improtance of sexual relations between married couples, including a commandment for a husband to attend to the pleasure of his wife.

Soloviev’s affinity with Kabbala was in his attraction of the very people who historically carried the tradition of Kabbala: the Jews. The Jewish people and their institutions held a special place in all aspects of Soloviev’s philsophy. Chriatian cabala is rarely mentioned by him, although its development in Europe had a significant influence on Renaissance and modern Western philosophy, through Freemasonry. Apparently only ‘authentic’ Jewish Kabbala carried the authority of Soloviev’s beloved Hebrew prophets and could help structure his ideal theocracy.

In short, Jewish Kabbala may have been particularly appealing to Soloviev precisely because it is Jewish, and then, in confirmation of Soloviev’s own reading of Jewish institutions, because it stresses the active role of humanity in the establishemnt of Godmahood. The theology of Kabbala and its cosmogonic system, with the coincidence of the terms Hokhmah/Sophia, no doubt compelled Soloviev to seek in its vocabulary an expression of his own mystical intuitions regarding divine-human interaction.

These qotes have been taken from the book 'The Occult of Russian and Soviet Culture…
Chapter Three: Russian Thought and the Jewish Kabbala by Juddith Deutsch Kornblatt

Blessings,
Shoshana

Shoshana, Hello again! The Quaballa; whether it begins with Q, K, or C is deep. It would probably be better for you to focus on the Book. My research of the Q has yielded some interesting knowledge, but none that will get you to heaven quicker. They are the Chosen People… but we are the cream! My paper addresses the “Conversion of the Jews”. Your free copy awaits you, and it will probably “help” your family. Just let me know where to send it. You are truly are fine spirit. IHS Daryl 661.703.4444

Yeah that sure descirbe Madonna err Esther and Demi Moore and Gyneth Paltrow and Britney Spears!

Hi all!

How has Kabbalah impacted my life as an orthodox Jew? Off the top of my head (such as it is :whacky: ), I can think of a few instances.

My wife :love: & I have been married for almost 16 marvelous years (thank God!). We had a traditional, orthodox Jewish wedding (see jewfaq.org/marriage.htm). At the beginning of the actual ceremony, as per the custom, my wife slowly circled me 7 times. There is a kabbalistic idea that our souls have 7 layers, with our true self, our true essence, being at the core. Total strangers do not know us at all. Casual acquaintances know only our outermost selves. Close friends and family members may know us at the second or third layer. When the bride circles her groom seven times, she is proceeding to the innermost core of his being; henceforth, only God will know him better than her. Thus, their union is far more than the merely physical. Her (impending) newfound intimate physical knowledge of him is matched by her newfound intimate spiritual knowledge of him. As much as the husband & wife will be one flesh, they will be one soul; no longer will they be incomplete half-things.

Deuteronomy 29:9-14 tells us:

You are standing this day all of you before the Lord your God: your heads, your tribes, your elders, and your officers, even all the men of Israel, your little ones, your wives, and your your stranger * that is in the midst of your camp, from the hewer of your wood unto the drawer of your water; that you should enter into the covenant of the Lord your God, and into His oath, which the Lord your God makes with you this day; that He may establish you this day unto Himself for a people, and that He may be unto you a God, as He spoke unto you, and as He swore unto your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; but with him that stands here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day…*

Our Sages offer a Kabbalistic commentary on the last phrase (“and also with him that is not here with us this day…”) and teach that the soul of every Jew who ever lived, and who will ever live, was there to take oath & enter into the covenant. Thus, we are born bound by the Torah. (Our Sages further teach that even the souls of converts were there.) When I decided, quite suddenly, at the age of 23, to actively embrace the Jewish faith which, up until then, hadn’t meant anything special to me, I was not embarking on a new path, rather I was responding to a spiritual echo that had been resonating in my soul ever since I bound myself to honor God’s covenant over 3,000+ years ago.

(cont.)

(cont.)

(Orthodox) Jews (myself included) have the habit of swaying/rocking the body (while seated or standing) during prayer. This has been documented since ancient times. In the Zohar (which is one of the main texts of Kabbalah, see tinyurl.com/6ydnt, scroll down to the section entitled “Jewish mysticism”), Rabbi Jose asks Rabbi Abba: “Why is it that among all nations the Jews alone have the habit of swaying the body when they study the Torah?” Rabbi Abba answers: “It illustrates the excellence of their souls. Proverbs 20:27 refers to them: 'The soul of man is the candle of the Lord ’ The light of that candle flickers and wavers in unison with the light of the Torah.” (I’ve culled some of the above from The Jewish Encyclopedia.)

Proverbs 20:27 (“The soul of man is the candle of the Lord”) crops up in other ways. Some of my Jewish friends will not blow out birthday candles. I have the following peculiar (superstitious?) habit: Every Friday evening (the eve of Shabbat, i.e, the Sabbath; see jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm) & holyday eve, my wife lights 4 candles, one for each member of our family (some Jewish women light only 2 candles; others, like DW, light one candle for each member of their families) & says the appropriate blessing, ushering in Shabbat/the holyday. If one of the candles should happen to go out or be blown out (by wind, the air-conditioner, etc.), I will take care to re-light the candle Saturday evening (after Shabbat is over & it’s OK to light a fire) & let it burn itself out naturally. I’ll chip wax away from the wick & use however many matches I need to get it lit (we use little round candles that fit inside a clear glass candle-holder). When DW asked me why I do this, I told her that the candle’s destiny is to burn. If it cannot burn, it cannot fulfill its destiny. This disturbs something in one of the upper spheres; the resulting imbalance has to be righted somehow and that “somehow” might not be to my liking. I have to relight the candle & let it burn itself out naturally for the same reason why some Jews don’t blow out birthday candles. Why is this? Because, “The soul of man is the candle of the Lord.”

Be well!

ssv :wave:

stillsmallvoice,

Thank You for the address of an introduction to Kabbala.
<jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm> :tiphat:

One is unlikely to find any reference to the hatred of Jesus Christ that is contained in the Qabala at any of the introductory Qabala websites.

"From the side of idolatry, Shabbathaj is called Lilith, mixed dung, on account of the filth mixed from all kinds of dirt and worms, into which they throw dead dogs and dead asses, the sons of Esau and Ishmael, and there Jesus and Mohammed, who are dead dogs, are buried among them." (Zohar III 282a, Qabala)

Hi all!

Nothinginsecret, I would be very interested to know what sites you are referring to. I have seen the Zohar mistranslated, misrepresented and outright falsified (I suspect deliberately) on many Christian websites.

Don’t take this the wrong way and I certainly mean no insult to any Christian (God forbid!) but given such items as (the following list is representative, not exhaustive) discriminatory anti-Jewish legislation, blood libels, pogroms, the Inquisition, being accused of causing the Black Death by poisoning wells, seeing our holy books burned, forcible baptism of Jewish children (such as Edgar Mortara), repeated expulsions, the Crusader massacres, the Chimelnicki massacres, being forced to listen to conversionary sermons in our own synagogues, etc., is it any wonder that some of my brethren, particularly those who lived in eras less enlightened than our current one in which we didn’t benefit from the courageous leadership of Popes such as John XXIII and John Paul II (tinyurl.com/642rb), might evince a hatred for Jesus Christ?

Be well!

ssv :wave:

[quote=stillsmallvoice]Hi all!

Nothinginsecret, I would be very interested to know what sites you are referring to. I have seen the Zohar mistranslated, misrepresented and outright falsified (I suspect deliberately) on many Christian websites.

[/quote]

I haven’t referred to any sites. I’ve referred directly to the Zohar text of the Qabala.

“From the side of idolatry, Shabbathaj is called Lilith, mixed dung, on account of the filth mixed from all kinds of dirt and worms, into which they throw dead dogs and dead asses, the sons of Esau and Ishmael, and there Jesus and Mohammed, who are dead dogs, are buried among them. (Zohar III 282a, Qabala)

[quote=stillsmallvoice]Don’t take this the wrong way and I certainly mean no insult to any Christian (God forbid!) but given such items as (the following list is representative, not exhaustive) discriminatory anti-Jewish legislation, blood libels, pogroms, the Inquisition, being accused of causing the Black Death by poisoning wells, seeing our holy books burned, forcible baptism of Jewish children (such as Edgar Mortara), repeated expulsions, the Crusader massacres, the Chimelnicki massacres, being forced to listen to conversionary sermons in our own synagogues, etc., is it any wonder that some of my brethren, particularly those who lived in eras less enlightened than our current one in which we didn’t benefit from the courageous leadership of Popes such as John XXIII and John Paul II (tinyurl.com/642rb), might evince a hatred for Jesus Christ?

[/quote]

Interesting theory, however, hatred for Christ by Judaics is well documented in the Talmud, which was written long before any forced conversions were attempted.

The Talmud states that Christ *deserved *to be executed because he practiced sorcery.

*“It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and fourty days before this the proclamation was made: 'Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and had lured the people to idolatry … He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone’.” *(Sanhedrin 43a, Babylonian Talmud)

[quote=Nothinginsecret]Interesting theory, however, hatred for Christ by Judaics is well documented in the Talmud,(Sanhedrin 43a, Babylonian Talmud)
[/quote]

As somebody who, if it was not for people exactly like you, would have been a ‘German Jew’, I have to say it’s nice to see you around - everbody likes their prejudices confirmed, after all, even in as little as your impotent rage.

[quote=cabaret]As somebody who, if it was not for people exactly like you, would have been a ‘German Jew’, I have to say it’s nice to see you around - everbody likes their prejudices confirmed, after all, even in as little as your impotent rage.
[/quote]

I’m having difficulty understanding the point you’re attempting to make here. Could you restate this thought more clearly please.

Nothinginsecret, there are many Christian writings filled with worse hatred. Unfortunately these writers were a product of their times.

What is your point? Should we hate Judaism and all practicing Jews because you have found a few offending passages?

Almost all of your posts on this website are dedicated to denigrating Jews, Judaism and Israel. Why do you have such a fixation?

[quote=bapcathluth]Nothinginsecret, there are many Christian writings filled with worse hatred. Unfortunately these writers were a product of their times.

[/quote]

In the Bible? Actually, no, there is not any hatred for Christ in the Bible that I am aware of, except that of the Pharisees.

[quote=bapcathluth]What is your point?
[/quote]

My point? How about this?

I’m participating in an open forum where a question was asked about the Judaic text, the Qabala. I responded with a passage from the Qabala. In fact, I was the only one who directly quoted the Qabala. All other responses were based in rhetoric.

The purpose of this thread is to provide information on the Qabala. That is what I have done.

I should ask you, what is your point? You have done nothing but make comments directed at me personally. I am not the topic of this thread. The Qabala is the topic.

[quote=bapcathluth]Almost all of your posts on this website are dedicated to denigrating Jews, Judaism and Israel. Why do you have such a fixation
[/quote]

This is a slanderous statement. I have written no comments whatsoever about Jews. I have quoted facts from Judaic sources regarding Judaism and facts regarding the State of Israel.

You have been following me around and libeling me. I should ask why you have such a fixation with me?

If you believe that my points are in error feel free to address them. But I’d ask that you cease making personal attacks.

How large is the Kabbala? How many pages? How many passages?

What percentage of the passages are negative against non-Jews?

Anybody who has personally known Jews or has discussed Judaism with them knows that Judaism doesn’t condone racism.

Just as Martin Luther said a lot of anti-Semitic stuff, but today’s Lutherans certainly don’t condone that.

[quote=Nothinginsecret]In the Bible? Actually, no, there is not any hatred for Christ in the Bible that I am aware of, except that of the Pharisees.

My point? How about this?

I’m participating in an open forum where a question was asked about the Judaic text, the Qabala. I responded with a passage from the Qabala. In fact, I was the only one who directly quoted the Qabala. All other responses were based in rhetoric.

The purpose of this thread is to provide information on the Qabala. That is what I have done.

I should ask you, what is your point? You have done nothing but make comments directed at me personally. I am not the topic of this thread. The Qabala is the topic.

This is a slanderous statement. I have written no comments whatsoever about Jews. I have quoted facts from Judaic sources regarding Judaism and facts regarding the State of Israel.

You have been following me around and libeling me. I should ask why you have such a fixation with me?

If you believe that my points are in error feel free to address them. But I’d ask that you cease making personal attacks.
[/quote]

I haven’t been following you around, but your posts speak for themselves. It is one thing to criticize another religion because you don’t agree with it. I have no problem with that, but you have a definite ax to grind and I don’t think it should go unnoticed.

I have addressed your points–that is at that time everyone was ethnocentric, also the Jews were suffering terribly from the Christians at that time. Today I don’t think they subscribe to these very few passages.

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.