Queenship of Mary?


#1

The Bible uses three Hebrew words for queen; shegal (king’s wife), malkah (a reigning Queen, like Queen Elizabeth II or Queen Victoria), and gebirah (generally used to refer to the Queen Mother). In Psalm 45:9, the word used is shegal. The King James Version and the RSV translate this as queen, but the New American Bible and the NIV translate it as “princess” and “royal bride” respectively. However, in Nehemiah 2:6, which uses “shegal,” both translate it as queen. Very interesting. Psalm 45 is basically a wedding Psalm and can be interpreted as the marriage between Christ and His Bride, the Church. As members of the Church, we all share in the royal dignity of Christ. For example, Revelations 2: 26 (KJV) states:

“And he (the Christian) that overcometh, and keepeth my word
unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with an iron rod; as vessels of the potter shall they be broken to shivers; even as I received from my Father.”

Other verses include:

DANIEL 7:27 (KJV)

“And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom and all dominions shall serve and obey him. (See also verse 21).”

LUKE 12: 43-44 (KJV)

“Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.”

1 CORINTHIANS 6:2-3 (KJV)

“Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? … Know ye not that we shall judge angels.?”

2 TIMOTHY 2:12

“If we suffer, we shall also reign with him…”

1 Peter 2:9

“… a royal priesthood …”

Revelations 4:4

" And around the throne (of God) were four and twenty seats (thrones): and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

Therefore, when we are baptized we partake in Christ’s royal dignity. Since this royal dignity is derivative, it was most appropriate that the Bride of Christ should be referred to as shegal (a queen by marriage) then malkah (a queen in her own right). Psalm 45:9, however, can also apply to the Blessed Virgin Mary. As a true Christian, and hence a spiritual bride of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2), Mary shares in Christ’s royal dignity. However, as the All Holy Mother of God the Son, our Savior and King, and spiritual mother of God’s people (Genesis 3:15, John 19:25), she enjoys a certain preeminence (Exodus 20:12, 1 Kings 2:19, Matthew 18:4, Luke 1:43 - 45, 48). As mother of Christ the King and of a kingly people (the Church), Mary is also the Gebirah (Queen Mother). Thus she is appropriately called “Queen of Heaven,” her Queenship - like our own royal dignity - completely deriving from her Son. Please feel free to comment, critique, or ask questions.

God Bless


#2

Emphasis added:

[quote=mikeledes]Thus she is appropriately called “Queen of Heaven,” her Queenship - like our own royal dignity - completely deriving from her Son.
[/quote]

Precisely.

– Mark L. Chance.


#3

Mary is also the Gebirah (Queen Mother). Thus she is appropriately called “Queen of Heaven,” her Queenship - like our own royal dignity - completely deriving from her Son. Please feel free to comment, critique, or ask questions.

This is what I find very convincing.
We know Jesus is a King of the order of David.
We know the “Queen” in the Davidic kingdoms was the mother of the King rather than the wife.
We know Jesus is King of heaven.
Logic would place Mary as the Queen Mother of heaven.


#4

Could not have said it better. This is a great thread. Good work!


#5

Queen of Heaven yes !

Mother of God no ! Mothers are creators, She did not create God . That is a blasphemy and She would be the first One to tell you so Herself. She created the flesh that was added to Divinty !

Bride of Christ no ! Bride of the Holy Ghost yes!

Christ as a King no! Our Lord is Divinity in every little bit, what was supplied by Our Blessed Mother was raised to Divinity and became Divine !

Men become Kings. God is All !
He is above Kingship.
The term Mesiah does not refer to Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is someone else entirely but I’ m not at liberty to say who.


#6

[quote=BM5]Queen of Heaven yes !

Mother of God no ! Mothers are creators, She did not create God . That is a blasphemy and She would be the first One to tell you so Herself. She created the flesh that was added to Divinty !

[/quote]

A mother does not create the immortal soul of the child, God does, but she is still the mother of the whole person not just the flesh that she knit in her womb. In the same way God is the source of Christ’s Divine nature and Mary was the source of His human nature. However, mothers give birth to persons, not natures. So, Mary gave birth to the Second Person of the Trinity, Who is God. The Mother of God was a title given to Mary to combat a Nestorian heresy that said Christ’s human nature was seperate from his divine nature, creating two separate and distinct persons—one divine and one human—united in a loose affiliation.


#7

[quote=BM5]Mother of God no ! Mothers are creators, She did not create God . That is a blasphemy and She would be the first One to tell you so Herself. She created the flesh that was added to Divinty !
[/quote]

In referring her as Mother of God, we refer to the Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus. Can one split the divine and human natures of Jesus? The answer of course, is no.

The term Mesiah does not refer to Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is someone else entirely but I’ m not at liberty to say who.

Pray tell us. This is, after all, a free board, and if there is something that one needs to say, then one should say it.


#8

:eek: Come on, tell us. Is it St Michael the Archangel? John the Baptist? Elijah? Abraham? Moses? David?


#9

[quote=BM5]Queen of Heaven yes !

Mother of God no !
[/quote]

Jesus = God and man. Mary = Jesus’ mother. As Jesus = God and man and Mary = His mother, therefore it is logical and true to say that Mary is the Mother of God. She is only the source of the motherhood through the Holy Spirit. Not calling Mary the Mother of God (Theotokos) would deny Jesus’ divinity (and/or humanity) and we can’t do that…

Mary truly is the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven.


#10

The wonderful world of contradictory, DIY religion:

[quote=BM5]Mother of God no ! Mothers are creators, She did not create God .
[/quote]

Mothers are not creators. Only God creates.

  1. Mary is Jesus’ mother.
  2. Jesus is God.
  3. Therefore, Mary is God’s mother.

As always, the logic of this syllogism cannot be refuted without denying one or both of the first premises.

[quote=BM5]Christ as a King no! … Men become Kings. God is All !
He is above Kingship.
[/quote]

Quick, everyone! Let’s contradict Scripture. Ephesians 5:5, 2 Timothy 4:1, 2 Peter 1:11, Revelation 1:5, Revelation 11:15, among others.

[quote=BM5]The term Mesiah does not refer to Our Lord Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

John 1:41, John 4:25-26, among others.

[quote=BM5]It is someone else entirely but I’ m not at liberty to say who.
[/quote]

:rotfl:

– Mark L. Chance.


#11

To say that Christ is not king flies in the face of the clear words of Scripture.

God Bless


#12

Jesus referred to Mary as “mother” from the cross.
That’s good enough for me.


#13

[quote=mikeledes]To say that Christ is not king flies in the face of the clear words of Scripture.

God Bless
[/quote]

Exactly right. So why do I say it knowing full well the response ?

Reflect on who the Scribes were and what their main job was.
What did Our Lord say about them ?
The Bible is a composite of truth, half truth and lies.
Those Scribes were always working at it, changing, deleting and adding. They moved into the Church after the Resurrection to get control and keep up their dirty work, even putting into print words
Our Lord never said and could never have said.

According to what is written; He threw out the Law of Justice summed up in “eye for eye tooth for tooth” the laws that He Himself established with Moses. He threw it out and brought in " turn the other cheek, forgiveness of enemies etc"
All this does is make us weak and deliver us into the hands of our enemies, and if it does that, don’t you think that this is exactly what the enemy wants ? And just how far do you want to take this thing, “if he steals your coat then give him your cloak also ?” Isn’t that what they say He said ?
So here it is, you come home and find someone has done you a trememdous evil like murder your wife what are you supposed to do? Justice says that man must pay with his life ! The new and DIFFERENT way says forgive, do good to him, pray for him, etc. etc.

This change from justice to weakness destroys the law, the law He made Himself. He did not come to destroy the law or the prophets but this statement does exactly that. A God that contradicts Himself, thats what your buying into by blindly defending it.


#14

[quote=BM5]The Bible is a composite of truth, half truth and lies. Those Scribes were always working at it, changing, deleting and adding. They moved into the Church after the Resurrection to get control and keep up their dirty work, even putting into print words Our Lord never said and could never have said.
[/quote]

:rotfl:

Prove it. I want documentary evidence. Either that, or retract your statement as the ridiculous lie that it is.

– Mark L. Chance.


#15

Prove it. I want documentary evidence. Either that, or retract your statement as the ridiculous lie that it is.

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

:thumbsup:

DITTO!!! Show your prove or RETRACT!!!


#16

The Bible is a composite of truth, half truth and lies.
Those Scribes were always working at it, changing, deleting and adding. They moved into the Church after the Resurrection to get control and keep up their dirty work, even putting into print words
Our Lord never said and could never have said.

Oh my…for a little while there I thought this was an attempt at a genuine conversation. Silly me.
I’ll quit wasting my right about now.


#17

If you believe that the Bible is a composite of truths and lies, how can you distinguish the truth from the lie? Since you put into question the credibility of the Bible, how do you know all of it is not a lie? By what standard are you judging the Bible? Your own logic? Who are you to do that? I’m sorry, but I really cannot take your arguments seriously unless you can back your claims with solid evidence.

God Bless


#18

There will be indisputable proof on a par with Fatima but it is not time yet.
I’m not coping out. When the time comes if I’m not booted off this website I promise to give it.
If what I say is true and mockery and derision result then penance must increase, because God will not be mocked.

Mothers arn’t creators?
You couldn’t be more wrong ! Parents are creators supplying the natural: this is obviously in co-operation with God who supplies the spiritual. It is a beautiful thing and a great honor to be a co-creator with Him. It is the greatest act a true christian can do if the intent is right.

Mother of God is still a no ! Nestorius was right on that score but hopelessly lost on the other. The title Mother of God at the very least is misleading and at the very worst blasphemous. God always was and no one created Him.

can do providing the intent is right.


#19

[quote=BM5]There will be indisputable proof on a par with Fatima but it is not time yet.
[/quote]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

– Mark L. Chance.


#20

[quote=mlchance]BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

Easy, Mark…I really want to hear this! These last two weeks have been a gold-mine for heresy. Because they are so tastey, I’ll do it top-ten-David-Letterman style:

  1. The Gospel to the Jews includes regenerative water baptism, but the Gospel to the Gentiles includes no water baptism of any kind.

  2. Because we’re Gentiles, we only have to listen to the scriptures that St. Paul wrote. All the rest is just “interesting reading”.

  3. God doesn’t know everything (see: Open Thiesm)

  4. Jesus is not the Messiah

  5. Mary did not give birth to God. She gave birth to Jesus, who was God in the womb and God after He came out of the womb, but somehow mysteriously not God during the birthing process. Or even an adoptive mother, for that matter, as she would still be Mother of God.

  6. As Catholics, we believe in three Gods while the Jews only believe in one.

  7. The Bible is a mix of truth and lies.

  8. Christians do not make up the Church, which is the Bride of Christ.

  9. Christ isn’t a King in the line of David; in fact, He’s no king at all.

  10. To Be Announced by BM5 (we apparently do not have the security clearance yet…but so you know, BM5, I’m cleared for Top Secret by the U.S. Government, so you can PM me if you would like…)

God Bless,
RyanL


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